Transgenderism

[tides2dust]

Good! And thank you for obliging my request not to text about transgenderism on the cell phone. A time and a place, I would be open to a phone call. But no more texting please, that's just too much for a guy like my self. Especially when you are so darn cryptic. I'm deciding you're not some puzzle for me to solve. I have tried replying to a thread on: "What Is Truth" to get back to spiritual topics. It really blew me away to see your political post and my response to them from 2017. Nothing has really changed, has it?

http://spiritualportal.net/index.php/topic,4581.0.html

Anyways. This documentary on detransitioners has nothing to do with Alex Jones or Paul Watson, so I do hope you give it a watch. It's really good and I plan on sharing it with others~
 
BUT- to you point, to our point- to all the points that could point.  This is the duality- and for every valid point there is a counter ready to contend. For every notion, there is something to affirm or to deny. To enable or to challenge. That is why you see what you see. It is why I see what I see. You have an internal compass, and you follow your Heart- that's the way of the world. And we go the direction we think best suited for our growth. Even if it is not fully actualized or spoken out loud. So the Truth is not something that is going to be discovered by debating philosophical view points, ideological beliefs, religious beliefs or even over world drama. If anything, it is only mean to show you *what is not truth.*

Is it possible for people of differing beliefs to share Truth- Gods Love, mutually?

Kind regards~

[Jitendra Hydonus]

It really blew me away to see your political post and my response to them from 2017. Nothing has really changed, has it?

http://spiritualportal.net/index.php/topic,4581.0.html

Thanks for bringing this up one more time after all these years Eric. I agree with you; nothing has changed and still Donald Trump is a pathological liar and has a conspiracy theory for every attempt to credit himself and discredit others who in any way disagree with him.

This was your last statement to me Eric;

“Then what are you doing
I have nothing more to say to you about your view points on transgenderism”

That is fine Brother but then why bring up this video again? And continue this thread?

….that's just too much for a guy like my self. Especially when you are so darn cryptic. It really blew me away to see your political post and my response to them from 2017. Nothing has really changed, has it?

http://spiritualportal.net/index.php/topic,4581.0.html

Anyways. This documentary on detransitioners has nothing to do with Alex Jones or Paul Watson, so I do hope you give it a watch. It's really good and I plan on sharing it with others~
 

Then why bring up transgender identification or of gender transition and detransition which are integrally related. This is the only video I see you have posted (shown in this post).

[Jitendra Hydonus]

Steve, what Eric is saying is perfectly reasonable. Encouraging young boys and girls in their transgender inclinations means leveraging the immature mind of adolescents for the sake of pursuing an ideology, a political narrative, and a willingness to change society but without respecting the times and limits dictated by elementary psychology, psychiatry and even common sense.

When I hear about pushing transgenderism in elementary schools, I think about indoctrination, similar to that exercised by russia and china.

I don't know why the woke movement wants to go to such extremes. And wants people to believe it to be the normality.

As far as we are concerned, Yoga is surely not the path of extremes, it is the path of moderation. I understand your reasons, but these cease to be valid when the age of the involved persons is legally immature. I would put 21 years at least as the minimum age for starting such procedures of gender change.

I’ve been around three transgenders in musical groups in my life. They successfully changed their sexuality and did so because they wanted to do so. I think it is perfectly reasonable to bring up all types of sexuality early in life. Especially when puberty aggressively affects our harmones. This can easily happen to even a young person in late elementary school. I do not pretend to be a psychologist and to be able to work out the details mccoy. But to ignore sexuality in education is for an example a good way to promote unwanted pregnancy. Although I will say this; to have the MAGA people come in and make absolute judgements on homosexuality, bisexuality and transgender is certainly not a fair way of expressing or understanding the many ways of human expression -that is, one philosophy fits all-. We can see it’s dangerous in conspiracy theories surrounding voting irregularities which led to a coup and attempted take over of the worlds original experience in democracy. We have seen these type of people, who were the first instigators of burning people at the stake while witch hunting; The greatest threat to democracy and freedom of expression we have witnessed in the history of this nation; the U.S.

[mccoy]

Steve, here I'll have to agree to disagree, the lefts do not want just to speak of sex and biology, they want to indoctrinate the young boys to make them accept as biologically natural an aberration, a blatant denial of the law of karma which assigns a biological sex to everyone (barred an absolute minority) according to their past actions.

But again, I agree with this disagreement.

[Jitendra Hydonus]

Steve, here I'll have to agree to disagree, the lefts do not want just to speak of sex and biology, they want to indoctrinate the young boys to make them accept as biologically natural an aberration, a blatant denial of the law of karma which assigns a biological sex to everyone (barred an absolute minority) according to their past actions.

But again, I agree with this disagreement.

Such terms as left and right do not apply to me mc coy. So I myself, have a hard time replying to your ability to divide people into neat little camps. In fact I was talking about someone else’s ability to make their own decisions and not any indoctrination that you have brought up. So I would say there is no need to agree to a disagreement. Indoctrination is one thing, making your own decisions is quite another. And, allowing others to make their own choices without moral indoctrination on our part. That is indoctrination from either side whether it be right or left.

Is it possible for people of differing beliefs to share Truth- Gods Love, mutually?

Kind regards~

Often ‘time’ answers our questions better than we can, Brother Eric. Time and experience determines our approach and spiritual direction. Your truth therefore may be quite different. Can we share God’s love? Yes it is always possible to do that.

[mccoy]

Such terms as left and right do not apply to me mc coy. So I myself, have a hard time replying to your ability to divide people into neat little camps. In fact I was talking about someone else’s ability to make their own decisions and not any indoctrination that you have brought up. So I would say there is no need to agree to a disagreement. Indoctrination is one thing, making your own decisions is quite another. And, allowing others to make their own choices without moral indoctrination on our part. That is indoctrination from either side whether it be right or left.

I myself hate to apply the political distinctions but, in the present state of the world, unfortunately, transgenderism has become an ideology that is fully supported by the political left wing, in America, in Canada, in Europe. I don't know about other parts of the world.
This ideology does not simply agree with the decisions of some people, this ideology wants to influence the malleable minds of young boys and girls to think that their whims are fully legitimate and must be supported. The indoctrination consists in many strategies and starts in primary schools, at a very young age, trying to shape minds. It's the same which takes place in North Korea, young minds are given a very distorted view of the world, so that they'll grow up with that narrative implanted into their brains.

The political narrative has nothing to do with letting adults make their choices after a full, complete, recognized understanding of the consequences. In Italy, it has been possible for a while now, whatever political faction is governing. But it is undeniable that the left factions just want to influence young minds, not to be compassionate or understanding, but rather to comply with their whims, with possible tragic outcomes.

Again, our view should be more focused on karma and what people who do not recognize themselves with their sex are supposed to do. I don't have a ready answer.

[Jitendra Hydonus]

Such terms as left and right do not apply to me mc coy. So I myself, have a hard time replying to your ability to divide people into neat little camps. In fact I was talking about someone else’s ability to make their own decisions and not any indoctrination that you have brought up. So I would say there is no need to agree to a disagreement. Indoctrination is one thing, making your own decisions is quite another. And, allowing others to make their own choices without moral indoctrination on our part. That is indoctrination from either side whether it be right or left.

I myself hate to apply the political distinctions but, in the present state of the world, unfortunately, transgenderism has become an ideology that is fully supported by the political left wing, in America, in Canada, in Europe. I don't know about other parts of the world.

This ideology does not simply agree with the decisions of some people, this ideology wants to influence the malleable minds of young boys and girls to think that their whims are fully legitimate and must be supported. The indoctrination consists in many strategies and starts in primary schools, at a very young age, trying to shape minds. It's the same which takes place in North Korea, young minds are given a very distorted view of the world, so that they'll grow up with that narrative implanted into their brains.

The political narrative has nothing to do with letting adults make their choices after a full, complete, recognized understanding of the consequences. In Italy, it has been possible for a while now, whatever political faction is governing. But it is undeniable that the left factions just want to influence young minds, not to be compassionate or understanding, but rather to comply with their whims, with possible tragic outcomes.

Again, our view should be more focused on karma and what people who do not recognize themselves with their sex are supposed to do. I don't have a ready answer.

I am of the opinion that if a man or woman is able to be drafted in the army they should be able to make their own decisions about their body and not be coerced by any political ideologies. I no longer can differentiate right from left mccoy. When I was younger the conservative right wanted us in wars like Afghanistan, Iraq and Vietnam. Look what that led to; Afghanistan was a 20 year debacle war the right started. It was finished by the left. Although the right promised to finish it, Trump was not able to finish it. Although he promised he would.  Iraq never had weapons of mass destruction the Republican right claimed.   And Viet Nam appears more happy then ever getting democracy out of their lives. It beats the dictator that the right supported. Today the far right want to see the war ended …. Which has been the claim of far Right Trump lovers. Trump; ‘I will end the war in Ukraine in 24 hours’ Mainly the left want to prolong the war against Russian aggression until it is ended.

The right seems to  want to control the way others use their bodies but they do not seem to want anyone treading on their personal ideas about for instance vaccines. Now I agree with them on that. But I say let’s be consistent. Let others also make their own decisions on the way they choose to use or alter their body’s. But their is no consistency. In fact the right want to control every aspect of a woman’s body yet they continue to fret about forced vaccines on themselves. Does that make me leftest because I want to preserve the sovereignty of a nation’s democracy? Does it make me a leftist to want to also preserve the rights of others to make their own decisions on vaccines. Go figure. What would I be? Left or right?

[mccoy]

I am of the opinion that if a man or woman is able to be drafted in the army they should be able to make their own decisions about their body and not be coerced by any political ideologies

Now Steve, please put up with my linguistic and conceptual maybe excessive fastidiousness. The following must be read in this key of punctiliousness.

I'll translate your words if I construed them correctly: if a person is mature enough to be drafted, he or she should be mature enough to make a decision about changing sex, without coercion from political ideologies.

If my interpretation is right, that appears not to be a very germane answer to my points.
That is, I was specifically referring to the influence some political ideologies, in particular the parties which are calling themselves 'left', 'democrats', progressist' and so on, are trying to exert on very young boys, not able yet to be drafted. By the way, the draft no more exists in America or in Italy.

Besides, your point is maybe a so-called non-sequitur. That is , people may be old enough to go to the army, yet not mature enough to be able to make a correct choice, socially, psychologically, practically or karmically speaking, about their sexual identity.

Moreover, in most Western countries there is absolute freedom about one's choice, provided a panel of specialists (among which psychiatrists and psychologists) issues a positive judgment on the issue.

The derangement of this system is pushing the specialists to give a positive assent notwithstanding factors such as being of too young an age, otherwise, they are ostracized, banned from the profession and else. I know this is happening in America and in Canada and is a system even self-proclaimed convinced democrats like the internet influencer Joe Rogan have denounced as deranged.

This system has been widely denounced by the famous Canadian professor and internet influencer Jordan Petersen, whose strict adherence to logic I admire.

[Jitendra Hydonus]

i will continue to ponder on your last entry. My immediate response is No there is no current draft here in the U.S, but there is a draft age so your point on that appears to be not relevant to my statement. And since the National Guard was called up and fought in both the Afghan and Iraq war that age is only 17. Young enough to lose your life but not old enough to make a critical decision in your life? i ask you to think about our nations leaders. They made the decision. Not me. They can make decisions on a young mans life and feel that they should but then they do not not feel that the same men or women should be able to make other serious and at times moral decisions? Sounds a bit hypocritical and definitely not consistent thinking.

To join the National Guard without prior service, you must meet these mandatory requirements:

Be between the ages of 17 and 35
Be a U.S. citizen or permanent resident
Be at least a junior in high school, or have a high school diploma or a GED certificate
Achieve a minimum score on the ASVAB test
Meet medical, physical and moral requirements
For full requirements, apply now and speak to a National Guard recruiter.

Unfortunately, when i went to school there was no sex education at all, so you see that is one reason the human race is multiplying like rats. The more transgenders there are the less people. That is the good side of the story! As far as a proper education in the future or presently, i am not in charge of that but i certainly - with out any doubt - do not want the far right to be making those kind of decisions and having them enforce their laws on women as they are all over this nation today. Because of far right presidents who think it is their duty to decide the morality of people in our nation by appointing stringent court appointees and justices to administer their morality.... while at the same time cutting funds to help those who have had to live lives forced on them from the conservative element of society. Didn't God give us free will to make our own decisions? That is what we are taught by the Masters. But there seems to be an element in society that want to play God and force others to play by their rules. In this nation today and even more so in other nations we have these people that want to set up this 'family morality' and having large families that multiply like locusts. It just isn't working mccoy. Mother Earth is under a heavy burden from our invasive species. The Catholic Church is one of the worst culprits for this. The far right have taken a very destructive view to destroy our earth with Population Explosion. Especially with many, if not most of them, wanting to close down Planned Parenthood in the U.S.

I am of the opinion that if a man or woman is able to be drafted in the army they should be able to make their own decisions about their body and not be coerced by any political ideologies

Now Steve, please put up with my linguistic and conceptual maybe excessive fastidiousness. The following must be read in this key of punctiliousness.

I'll translate your words if I construed them correctly: if a person is mature enough to be drafted, he or she should be mature enough to make a decision about changing sex, without coercion from political ideologies.

If my interpretation is right, that appears not to be a very germane answer to my points.
That is, I was specifically referring to the influence some political ideologies, in particular the parties which are calling themselves 'left', 'democrats', progressist' and so on, are trying to exert on very young boys, not able yet to be drafted. By the way, the draft no more exists in America or in Italy.

Besides, your point is maybe a so-called non-sequitur. That is , people may be old enough to go to the army, yet not mature enough to be able to make a correct choice, socially, psychologically, practically or karmically speaking, about their sexual identity.

Moreover, in most Western countries there is absolute freedom about one's choice, provided a panel of specialists (among which psychiatrists and psychologists) issues a positive judgment on the issue.

The derangement of this system is pushing the specialists to give a positive assent notwithstanding factors such as being of too young an age, otherwise, they are ostracized, banned from the profession and else. I know this is happening in America and in Canada and is a system even self-proclaimed convinced democrats like the internet influencer Joe Rogan have denounced as deranged.

This system has been widely denounced by the famous Canadian professor and internet influencer Jordan Petersen, whose strict adherence to logic I admire.

[mccoy]

Steve, now I understand your support of transgenderism, that's because your strong concerns about overpopulation. So, the more the gay people and infertile transgenders, the lesser the concern. This appears to be a more logical argumentation than that based on age required to join the national guard. Not necessarily in the right sphere of thought, but belonging to a more logical reasoning.

And I really don't see a strong logic in the other arguments, that is, at 17 you may want to serve in a military structure but you may well be wrong on wanting to change sex. The two things are independent. You may be right on one thing and wrong on the other. Please note that some requirements must be met to join the guard, even as some requirements must be met to change sex.

About the morality issue, it is not very clear what you are alluding to. It may have been more clear to a citizen of the USA, but it is not to me, a citizen of another country.

If you are alluding to abortion, the discussion becomes more serious but I'm not sure abortion is part of your topic since you do not mention the specific term. I will not pronounce my opinion about abortion until you confirm that it is part of your argumentations.

[Jitendra Hydonus]

Perhaps 🤔 at times we should look at ourselves and delve into the question of what brings us together as spiritual beings, but often separates us on ideological issues? I often asked this question of myself when Eric was around. I have my ideas. They are some what multiple faceted and are thoughts for another thread. At this point of our conversation I will attempt to stay on the topic, but just want to add here that as introspective seekers of the truth we often find other core reasons for even bringing up topics like this. I guess one of my points here is that this life perhaps was never intended to be a smooth ride. Maybe we are somewhat prisoners if our own devices and desires marooned on an island  of restitution.

Steve, now I understand your support of transgenderism, that's because your strong concerns about overpopulation. So, the more the gay people and infertile transgenders, the lesser the concern. This appears to be a more logical argumentation than that based on age required to join the national guard. Not necessarily in the right sphere of thought, but belonging to a more logical reasoning.

And I really don't see a strong logic in the other arguments, that is, at 17 you may want to serve in a military structure but you may well be wrong on wanting to change sex. The two things are independent. You may be right on one thing and wrong on the other. Please note that some requirements must be met to join the guard, even as some requirements must be met to change sex.

About the morality issue, it is not very clear what you are alluding to. It may have been more clear to a citizen of the USA, but it is not to me, a citizen of another country.

If you are alluding to abortion, the discussion becomes more serious but I'm not sure abortion is part of your topic since you do not mention the specific term. I will not pronounce my opinion about abortion until you confirm that it is part of your argumentations.

mccoy; I wonder how much thought you’ve given to the point that some spheres of thought overlap? I mean by this that at some age we must be old enough to make decisions and be responsible for those decisions on our own, having known that society places requirements on us all through life. There are various biological, sociological, political and interpersonal requirements we face everyday. This is life as we have come to know it. Yet we ourselves make these decisions and must face the consequences of those decisions. How much do we feel we have the responsibility of telling others what their decisions should be?

I am of the opinion that if a man or woman is able to be drafted in the army they should be able to make their own decisions about their body and not be coerced by any political ideologies

Now Steve, please put up with my linguistic and conceptual maybe excessive fastidiousness. The following must be read in this key of punctiliousness.

Besides, your point is maybe a so-called non-sequitur. That is , people may be old enough to go to the army, yet not mature enough to be able to make a correct choice, socially, psychologically, practically or karmically speaking, about their sexual identity.

Moreover, in most Western countries there is absolute freedom about one's choice, provided a panel of specialists (among which psychiatrists and psychologists) issues a positive judgment on the issue.

mccoy; no it may seem to you that I am engaging in non-sequiiters, but honestly I feel I have expressed some cohesive ideas here. I wouldn’t say that you haven’t, it’s just that yours appear hypocritical to me. And that is because I hear you can say that others have the right to kill but not to determine their own gender. You would have us believe that requires more maturity to make such a decision?

You can draft some one to kill others and themselves but you cant let them have the right to make their own decisions on their moral life. Does that make any logical sense to you? i mean is killing people less important as sexual orientation? Killing people is a moral decision the government can at any time thrust on its citizens.  But you feel that the government also has the right to make decisions on their sexual orientation? At whatever age they choose?

Here is another sphere of thought that I see overlapping: There is also the very practical and ethical question of; How will we ever slow down the destruction of Mother Earth when we have leaders promoting the judgement of other peoples moral life and shutting down ‘planned parenthood’? No abortion is not part of this topic. That would have to be something you decide to start as a thread. The issues are very complex and not easily resolved.  Open topic. See photo below…The results of right wing forced ethics and some religious propaganda....

[attachment deleted by admin]

[mccoy]

Steve, at first, in the deceased fora I was flabbergasted at seeing devotees diverging so much in opinions not only, but arguing and bickering among themselves often in harsh ways. To date, I can still barely believe it and probably it is the anonymous forum environment that pulled out the worst in devotees.

Here it is different, but I still wonder why sometimes ideas are so different. Am I wrong or are you wrong? Or is everyone just in the middle? Or wrong and right in different percentages?

That's why I'm playing the part of the logically rigorous nerd because perhaps we can understand the source of differences, the cosmic spheres of thoughts and its possible overlaps, as  you are implying. this requires some detachment from one's own present ideas, otherwise, logic is affected. I'm speaking of myself as well.

And if you are feeling convenient with it, I'm tackling the issues one by one, for lack of much time.

We can rule out abortion straight away, because I totally agree that it is a very complex discussion with multiple aspects to contemplate.

[Jitendra Hydonus]

I appreciate your openness to the possibility of being in error, I am also. In fact I do not know that people can be completely wrong or right as long as there is duality. I believe your view that there is a percentage of right and wrong, is ‘most probably’ more correct. And their is always the possibility of being right but simultaneously being wrong in our way of behaving. Is it possible that as long as we are in duality right or wrong are not absolute terms? Perhaps we must also look at the way we respond or react to our own cherished ideas. In that we can also be right or wrong. What I see happening on an international and national scale  is more complex in nature as well. We used to have people making slaves out of one another and a God of the Old Testament giving us the green light on doing it. Today Slavery is for the most part a thing of the past. We now think of for instance economic slavery.

We as spiritual beings are attempting to fine tune our consciousness. yet we still question our ability to understand our own thoughts and feelings as we encounter others who have contrasting views. And occasionally - or even more so, if that is our current lesson - we meet someone that makes us look at our reality quite differently. Although we may at the same time see their mistakes in the way they did so. I recently had a devotee question my ability to have an ‘open-minded’ view on vaccines and the harm they are capable of. While I attempted to express my view that both sides had good and bad points, she constantly attempted to make me me feel guilty by ‘demanding’ that i fess up to whether I had been vaccinated or not.

[mccoy]

Yes Steve, this topic as well many others has not a unique aspects.

The aspects I can see are: Karmic assignment of sex, possibility to overrule karmic assignment and related problems; legitimacy to overrule karmic assignment if mentally miserable; legitimacy to provide for sex change when serious cases of mental instability are know to have ensued; legitimacy not to provide sex change when mental instability present because of refusal; compassion for those who are in such a difficult karmic plight; necessity of society to avoid doing more harm then good,..... surely more are present.

[Jitendra Hydonus]

Yes Steve, this topic as well many others has not a unique aspects.

The aspects I can see are: Karmic assignment of sex, possibility to overrule karmic assignment and related problems; legitimacy to overrule karmic assignment if mentally miserable; legitimacy to provide for sex change when serious cases of mental instability are know to have ensued; legitimacy not to provide sex change when mental instability present because of refusal; compassion for those who are in such a difficult karmic plight; necessity of society to avoid doing more harm then good,..... surely more are present.

I see in this conversation some concepts above that relate to our previous conversation on ‘spheres of thought’ and that…

“Two spheres could even overlap, so as to share common elements with each other. This could be seen for example in Schopenhauer's philosophy, who takes over certain basic elements of his predecessor, Kant's philosophy. Conversely, we could unite two formerly antagonistic views in a higher synthetic sphere, by sublating (in Hegel's terms) both views in a higher synthesis.”