Longevity and health

[mccoy]

I've been studying this subject and the latest evolution in science and research for the last 5 years. Hundreds of hours in book reading, article reading, blog reading, podcasts listenings.

What do you guys think about the subject? What about its relationship to Raja Yoga and karma?

My quick take:

-The time of our death is governed by karma, but in a probabilistic context, I think. Unless the probability for some specific occurrence si very, very high, we can lower it by careful behavior, besides burning the seeds of karma by meditation
-For example, we may have a karmic predisposition to obesity or heart disease, with a consequent increase in death hazard, but we can lower our probability of fatal events by better diet, exercise, better lifestyle, and so on, even if we shall have to devote much more effort than some other people who have a karmic predisposition to health
-We may have a karma of dying in a car accident, but if we drive carefully, don't drive when very sleepy, don't text while driving, and so on the probability of that accident will decrease significantly.

Great masters sometimes do not exhibit longevity. for example, Yogananda died at a relatively young age of heart attack. JAmes Lynn died of brain cancer at 61. There may be many reasons for that, not excluding absorbing the bad karma of disciples, or overcoming all karma of past incarnations and obtain full liberation.

[mccoy]

Dear Lucca,
while I think your general assessment on the inter-dependency of health and food-intake is very rational and well reasoned, I have my doubts as for their ability to increase a given life-span.

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it, and whosoever will lose his life for My sake shall find it. - Matthew 16:25

In the sense of Christ's own words, I believe that only a true spiritual liberation attained would possibly enable any increase of a personal life-span. Of course, that's my private opinion only.
Many speculation has been made (as everywhere) on some Masters' lives. - I feel I cannot comment on these.
Hope it helps you a little. - Praying for you and yours!

Uwe, let's assume you are perfectly right, that is, we cannot increase our karmically pre-determined lifespan with better food, exercise, sleep, and stress management.

Then, what about shortening that same lifespan? That's in our power. If we eat too much and the wrong foods, do not exercise, sleep little, or overwork, we are probably going to get ill and maybe die prematurely, before our karmically predetermined time. That because we have created fresh bad karma which overpowers previous karma.

So, by not eating the wrong foods and so on, we can at least avoid a decrease in karmically pre-determined lifespan.

I am more optimistic than you are, that is, we can probably manipulate our health karma by material means and by metaphysical means. But at the same time I agree with you in that I think that if the karma of our death is set very strongly, for example, we should die because of the injuries after an accident, or we carry a strong genetic predisposition for some disease, then the governing factor is the grace of God, gained by prayer and meditation. But that works rarely. More often than not, in some cases, nothing works. Sometimes karma is simply too strong. And that is also right. If we committed some heinous crime in the past, we cannot hope for an easy escape.

[mccoy]

Uwe, Ok, your view heads toward strong predetermination by the overwhelming power of karma.

My view si based on a model with more power of the subjective individual and free will, although of course free will is often very much influenced by actions done in the past and overwhelms discrimination.

The two distinct views may even be compatible, in some situations there may be a very strong predetermination, in others there may be more room to manipulate our karma.

[guest587]

You might be interested in tomorrows Satsang with Swami Vidyadhishananda

"Can Freewill Overcome Chance and Destiny?"

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/can-freewill-overcome-chance-and-destiny-tickets-708859707467?aff=oddtdtcreator

[mccoy]

Eric, I won't be able to log in to the streaming talk, if you are going to watch it, pls report if you can

[guest587]

Good morning Mccoy!

I will be at work but I will report back later as the recording will be available after the fact. I will make sure to include the link and password so you can listen to, for however long they keep it up.

[mccoy]

thanks!

[Jitendra Hydonus]

I've been studying this subject and the latest evolution in science and research for the last 5 years. Hundreds of hours in book reading, article reading, blog reading, podcasts listenings.

What do you guys think about the subject? What about its relationship to Raja Yoga and karma?

My quick take:

-The time of our death is governed by karma, but in a probabilistic context, I think. Unless the probability for some specific occurrence si very, very high, we can lower it by careful behavior, besides burning the seeds of karma by meditation
-For example, we may have a karmic predisposition to obesity or heart disease, with a consequent increase in death hazard, but we can lower our probability of fatal events by better diet, exercise, better lifestyle, and so on, even if we shall have to devote much more effort than some other people who have a karmic predisposition to health
-We may have a karma of dying in a car accident, but if we drive carefully, don't drive when very sleepy, don't text while driving, and so on the probability of that accident will decrease significantly.

Great masters sometimes do not exhibit longevity. for example, Yogananda died at a relatively young age of heart attack. JAmes Lynn died of brain cancer at 61. There may be many reasons for that, not excluding absorbing the bad karma of disciples, or overcoming all karma of past incarnations and obtain full liberation.

Perhaps 🤔 so mccoy but it also may be that they were spared having to live any longer in this dungeon, compared to the wonders of the higher astral and causal realms. I just hope my karma takes me quickly so I do not have to endure a long descent in for instance; the shadowy life of dementia, or the slow and painful death of bodily deterioration. All reminders to those who believe this is a place to delight in, while others suffer.

[Jitendra Hydonus]

I notice you have not brought up the subject of protein since you came back to join us mccoy. It was a quite an important topic for you a few years back and you corroborated it with many cutting edge reports about the lessoning need for protein as the body ages. And, that protein can actually decrease the number of years we live if indulged in extensively. I wonder if you have somewhat backed tracked from that idea since then?

[Jitendra Hydonus]

I notice you have not brought up the subject of protein since you came back to join us mccoy. It was a quite an important topic for you a few years back and you corroborated it with many cutting edge reports about the lessoning need for protein as the body ages. And, that protein can actually decrease the number of years we live if indulged in extensively. I wonder if you have somewhat backed tracked from that idea since then?

Mccoy I really see nothing wrong with revising our opinions. I often have to do that myself as new circumstances and people enter my life or leave my life. Or if changing conditions in my physical, material and spiritual life make it apparent I need to revise my own behaviors.

[mccoy]

Steve, yes, during the latest years I've been studying and I've been experimenting with myself. There are several narratives, and I don't know where to begin, the topic is far, very far from having been elucidated, especially because we don't have biological markers that indicate which is the best amount of protein and essential aminoacids (EAAs) for longevity.

Since you asked I'm going to try and write a synthesis, not now though since I'm almost going to hit the hay. And then I'm going to try and frame the scientific knowledge into the metaphysical knowledge of Raja Yoga.

For now, the opposite narratives are these:

1) The vegans, who say that low(ish) or better moderate protein is best for health and longevity

2) The school of Valter Longo, who say that moderate protein (the official RDA) is best for longevity until about age 65, and then more protein is best for longevity.

3) The school of Dan Layman (the muscle-centric theory) , who says that high protein (2 X the RDA animal protein mainly) is best for longevity since muscles are organs that favor longevity

4) The school of Peter Attia, who says that avoiding sarcopenia, the atrophy of muscles with age, is essential to increase longevity, then a very high protein intake is recommended to capitalize on muscle and bones hypertrophy. He suggests almost 4 X RDA amount of protein, mainly of animal origin)

[mccoy]

Having said the above, as Dr. Luigi Fontana says (one eminent longevity expert), we have no biomarkers for EAAs or protein, so we really don't know what's the better amount for longevity.

Another basic aspect is that the optimum amount for longevity is different for different people, according to genotype, activity, exercise, diet and so on.

[Jitendra Hydonus]

Having said the above, as Dr. Luigi Fontana says (one eminent longevity expert), we have no biomarkers for EAAs or protein, so we really don't know what's the better amount for longevity.

Another basic aspect is that the optimum amount for longevity is different for different people, according to genotype, activity, exercise, diet and so on.

It appears that you have lost your enthusiasm for the very low use of protein while aging. I recall articles you produced that suggested as we grow older protein is no longer needed as it was when we were young and still growing muscles and bone structure. In fact that too much protein while aging had a deleterious impact on aging.

[Jitendra Hydonus]

I find for me that often such subjects - more than having to defend them or explain - they remind me that after years of spiritual practice, I have tempered some of my more obstinate tendencies and ideas. I find for me that often such subjects - more than having to defend them or explain - they remind me that after years of spiritual practice, I have tempered some of my more obstinate tendencies and ideas. It is fascinating to me, now,  because of karmic factors I have gravitated quite emphatically towards certain view points and opinions.  Much later, I  find myself dwelling on them and find ways to expand my consciousness beyond their seeming to be quirks of addictive behavior.

For the most part, I have found that our consciousness has brought us together with a sense of tolerance for the views of others- that is often missing in relationships - and is the cause of many impasses that eventually surface, although sometimes taking years to become annoyingly apparent. So though are benefits in longevity, in the sense that we are humbled by time itself.

[mccoy]

It appears that you have lost your enthusiasm for the very low use of protein while aging. I recall articles you produced that suggested as we grow older protein is no longer needed as it was when we were young and still growing muscles and bone structure. In fact that too much protein while aging had a deleterious impact on aging.

Steve, that's true, I remember that, although I don't remember exactly the articles. Maybe I cited the 2014 article in the very authoritative Cell magazine by Morgan Levine (I call her the Barbie doll with a giant brain) and Valter Longo, a renowned longevity expert (of Italian origins like Luigi Fontana). It underlined the fact that until a certain age it's best to eat a moderate amount of protein, whereas after a certain age (65 years according to the study) it's best to increase protein to avoid sarcopenia or frailty. This same study told that eating meat is very bad for longevity and health. The title is maybe misleading because it says 'low protein' but in reality it should read 'proper amount of protein'.

Presently, in consideration of the very differing views existing on this subject, I use some criteria to navigate. In a few words, I try to use God-given power of logic and discrimination.

What are the opinions of the great masters on the subject? They suggested moderation in eating, a plant-based diet but with the presence of animal protein, like fresh dairy products (sattvic food like SY writes in his book) and eggs. The lacto-ovo vegetarian diet of SRF monks and nuns. Yogananda supported a 'proprietarian diet'. The proper variety and the proper amount of vegetarian food.

All in moderation. So, protein should be eaten in moderation, which means it should be in the right amount, not too much but not too little. Exercise, a very good ingredient for longevity, increases the demand for protein.

If you are curious, this is the article on cell metabolism. It is a milestone, highly praised by the vegans, highly criticized by the paleo and lowcarb guys.

Low Protein Intake Is Associated with a Major Reduction in IGF-1, Cancer, and Overall Mortality in the 65 and Younger but Not Older Population

https://www.cell.com/fulltext/S1550-4131(14)00062-X