Religion

[Jitendra Hydonus]

Is religion important or to spiritual development? Recently i have been on another site and it seemed like all they talked about was The Self Realization Fellowship. i do think that the helpful advice and views of an organization can help our spiritual development. Especially if we are geographically near such places. i spent several years at a Vivekananda Monastery with Amma's devotees and with Ammas well as many years at SRF. i found them all helpful. Yet i also found that in the end it is my personal relationship with a guru and my spiritual practice that leads me to the answers i need. Also the friends and meditation experiences and life encounters i have had that have changed me the most.

Jitendra

[mccoy]

Steve, a religion is important insofar as it is able to effectively channel and organize the spiritual energy of its devotees.
If the organization is able to promote specific teachings and if people get benefit from it then it is important.
Of course, the importance of a religious organization governs at the beginning of the spiritual practice, whereas later on individual practice governs, as you say.

[Jitendra Hydonus]

Mccoy; Either intentionally or unintentionally you and I left out such topics as social, political and any larger issues beyond personal help that religion can offer. I have found that most religions have much more difficulty in these areas and find themselves a center of 'controversy'  if they try answering such concerns.

[guest88]

Hi Jitendra,
What perfect timing... I've been doing a little research lately on different paths and am beginning to question particular aspects of religion as well.
I've briefly read up on what it means to be a satanist and have had a curiosity in understanding the origins of demons. During my studies I've read experiences of devotees/followers of the satanist path sharing why it is they've embraced satanism. A few say they follow the path after having felt the presence of Satan and to my surprise, their experience is similar to other stories described by those who have encountered the presence of Jesus Christ.

"unexpectedly and suddenly I felt a powerful and overwhelming presence. I was so shocked and surprised by that usual experience (never had anything even remotely similar) and all I could do was ask in mind who was that and… I received clear, strong and even more shocking answer: SATAN! Uninvited and confusing joy and energy flooded through me. It was so incredible, so intense, I felt complete union with Satan. I can’t describe that in words, it was too amazing. As if I became god, all powerful, everything at once, felt power of creation and destruction, full of energy and much, much, much more! It was complete ecstasy! You can’t be the same after that experience. I just felt in love with Satan in an instant and there was no turning back, my heart was singing, only my mind was stuttered and confused about what to do with all that."

This is one example... And another example...

"I have a long history of drug addiction and have been depressed and suicidal for going on 10 years. That all disappeared when I dedicated myself to Satan, almost overnight! I don’t want to die anymore, I don’t crave drugs or alcohol. I can feel Satan with me always. I’m positive, at peace and even though there are still money problems, I’m actually happy, despite that.

My love and gratitude to Satan for pulling me out of the shit hole I was in goes beyond words."

Words like Love and Gratitude are emphasized and most stories seem to describe an overwhelming force of peace and joy. Below is a quick description of a lady whom says she experienced Jesus Christ
"So I knelt down by the bed, crying all the time. And then it happened. I felt this overwhelming peace and warmth. I knew it was the Lord Jesus, he was there with me. "

Most people describe this force as an instinctive knowing. I've had my own experience in the past where a surreal and undeniable force had me kneeling and "kissing the masters feet" so to say. There was a stone and a dove in my backyard and I felt I was in the presence of a Master.

Where are all these feelings coming from ? Maybe it is as Mccoy has stated... That Religion is a way to direct spiritual energy. Maybe, we are all learning through religion how to tune into a divine frequency.

[Jitendra Hydonus]

And... what is the doctrine and practices of what you call Satan?  From my understanding of Satan his tactics are to take us away from our unity with spirit and to emesh us in this material world.

[guest88]

Hi Jitendra, I've only recently started digging into the religion of satanism so I don't have a firm answer for you. My previous post was to pose an idea that reflects Mccoys sentiments. That Religion is a construct to deeper expression so to answer the question in your first post

Is religion important or to spiritual development?

I believe it CAN be important. It is for some and isn't for others.
Whatever path you follow, there are basic principals throughout that help the individual live a rich and meaningful life.
I like the idea of Sufism for its defined as The Religion of the Heart.

"Sufism is the religion of the heart, the religion in which the most important thing is to seek God in the heart of mankind."
"The first way is to recognize God the divine in every person, and to care for every person with whom we come in contact, in our thought, speech, and action."
"The next way of practicing this religion is to think of the feeling of the person who is not at the moment before us. "
"The third way of realizing the Sufi principle is to recognize in one's own feeling the feeling of God, and to realize every impulse that rises in one's heart as a direction from God."

Although I'm not sure I necessarily understand or agree with everything being shared above- I do share certain values found in sufism. It's also interesting to note that there are people who claim a particular path without understanding the depth of the religion they've decided to follow. It's because of this you'll find many branches within the same religion that more and more conform to someones own idea of what it means to live a deeper life. A life that reflects their inner sanctum.

The individuals quoted in my previous post come from two seemingly different paths... Christianity and Satanism yet the words and emotions in which they share are so closely related that you can't help but wonder, what are these people tapping into? I think there's something here to take note of... That God has many names and religion is another tool created by man as an aid to understanding things we classify as spiritual.


There's a lot to discuss when it comes to religion as we're most aware. My thinking is more a long the lines.... I am me. That's my path.

[mccoy]

cosmicgoat, I would not trust the satanists' words.
Satanist cult are known for their black magic practices where they conjure up evil forces. Those who were devotees of satanist sects have committed crimes of brutal cruelty. Sometimes getting into satanic rituals is enough to cause demonic possessions.
While traditional religions preach the positiv equalities of the soul, Satan preaches hate, doom, greed, ruin.

So, any spiritual experience from feeling the presnece of Satan cannot but be a deception.

[Beatrice Landcaster]

Ya all know me and I tell ya there aint nothin like that down home religion. Get back to the hell fire and brimstone. Lets a get this hot bed a flamin with the holy spirit. i mean to tell ya folks  ya aint seen notin till ya all see Beady back at those ol Christian revivals. The world is a smolderin' but ol Beady can take you into those pure waters of the holy spirit. You been rattlin yo trap and yo just a lambskin away from the ol devil himself. I tell ya Mccoy were goina put down that ol demon from hell. Take me where those cool waters flow and I'll be a searchin my soul!

                                                                                           Beatrice Landcaster

[guest88]

Hi Mccoy.
I strongly disagree. Through my studies I've found that most Satanist do not preach or practice hate and doom. Instead they share a common philosophy that caters to individualism and expression. How many radicals do you know that have acted out violence in the name of God ? The people that commit these types of acts and crimes don't belong to just one religious sect.
I also disagree that demons are something to be afraid of. That's the same as stating all humans are evil . Or that one race of people are all bad people, none of them can be good if they are that race. Where does the word demon originate from ? You'll find it wasn't used as a word to define a malevolent force but was once a word used to describe something akin to a spirit of nature.
It wasn't my intention to focus so much on any particular Religion but to make a point by answering the question posed by Jitendra. A point that mirrors your belief as well.... That religion is a way to channel energy.

[mccoy]

cosmicG, I didn't know that etimological meaning of 'demons'.
If by demons you mean any disincaranted spirit, not necessarily bad, it's all right, I follow your reasoning.

Whatever is satanic, though, by definitions follows the nature of satan or maya, the cosmic deceiver. That is: does not speak the truth.

[guest88]

Ah but Mccoy you've forgotten I've long sense transmogrified to goat form ! The ways of human mythology, in all of its order and chaos are foreign to me ! Indeed I am other worldly and find it difficult enough to adapt to the ritual of these terrestrial nanny goats ! There is little room in this tiny head of mine for understanding both earth goats and you earthly humans ! 

[Jitendra Hydonus]

Hi Jitendra,........ My previous post was to pose an idea that reflects Mccoys sentiments. That Religion is a construct to deeper expression so to answer the question in your first post

Is religion important or to spiritual development?

I believe it CAN be important. It is for some and isn't for others.
Whatever path you follow, there are basic principals throughout that help the individual live a rich and meaningful life.
I like the idea of Sufism for its defined as The Religion of the Heart.

"Sufism is the religion of the heart, the religion in which the most important thing is to seek God in the heart of mankind."
"The first way is to recognize God the divine in every person, and to care for every person with whom we come in contact, in our thought, speech, and action."
"The next way of practicing this religion is to think of the feeling of the person who is not at the moment before us. "
"The third way of realizing the Sufi principle is to recognize in one's own feeling the feeling of God, and to realize every impulse that rises in one's heart as a direction from God."

Although I'm not sure I necessarily understand or agree with everything being shared above- I do share certain values found in sufism. It's also interesting to note that there are people who claim a particular path without understanding the depth of the religion they've decided to follow. It's because of this you'll find many branches within the same religion that more and more conform to someones own idea of what it means to live a deeper life. A life that reflects their inner sanctum.

The individuals quoted in my previous post come from two seemingly different paths... Christianity and Satanism yet the words and emotions in which they share are so closely related that you can't help but wonder, what are these people tapping into? I think there's something here to take note of... That God has many names and religion is another tool created by man as an aid to understanding things we classify as spiritual.


There's a lot to discuss when it comes to religion as we're most aware. My thinking is more a long the lines.... I am me. That's my path.

I appreciate your quotIng some of the sufi tenets. The Hindu religion also contains the force of attraction and repulsion (God and Satan)  all in one. However there is an important difference here. Whereas the force of good and evil is all contained in God in Hindusim since God created everything... in Christianity those forces are in eternal opposition. In Hindusim those forces can be transcended by first following kindness  to others and love for God and through meditation and spiritual practice eventually rising above both our ideas of  (Satan) and (God) and seeing that it is all a cosmic illusion. Just a play of forces which creates this cosmic movie show.

Buddhism is a rather radical departure from God and Satan in the sense that the the acceptance of both these ideas are also only ideas and principles and that there is no need to accept either of these concepts but instead reach enlightenement and drop all our preconcieved ideas of religion, God, Satan etc.

In our path to rise above both evil and good we are taught to follow the path of good and kindness until we rise  above the 'idea' of good and evil. This is done through meditation and spiritual practice and service.

Steve

[guest46]

Ah but Mccoy you've forgotten I've long sense transmogrified to goat form ! The ways of human mythology, in all of its order and chaos are foreign to me ! Indeed I am other worldly and find it difficult enough to adapt to the ritual of these terrestrial nanny goats ! There is little room in this tiny head of mine for understanding both earth goats and you earthly humans ! 

I believe it it must be time to bring the mid nite astrologer in for a mid nite horrorscope reading on the cosmic goat.
I think it's horns have grown out of proportion. They appear horrorific!

[guest58]

Ah but Mccoy you've forgotten I've long sense transmogrified to goat form ! The ways of human mythology, in all of its order and chaos are foreign to me ! Indeed I am other worldly and find it difficult enough to adapt to the ritual of these terrestrial nanny goats ! There is little room in this tiny head of mine for understanding both earth goats and you earthly humans ! 

I believe it it must be time to bring the mid nite astrologer in for a mid nite horrorscope reading on the cosmic goat.
I think it's horns have grown out of proportion. They appear horrorific!

https://www.google.com/search?q=george+w+bush+alfred+e+neuman&tbm=isch&tbs=simg:CAQSywEayAELEKjU2AQaBggLCBcIPQwLELCMpwganAEKOggCEhTIHPoesR2dCu0e3BGSIJYRgyC7HRogK7L0xv1vFZJ9rder73DpPW4tZeRKegpQcWIBVFFeJYoKXggDEiicHaEdphG2GvoRxQ-bHfgPuRyoEZEuwTqPLo0u4i_1SOqAuki6ZJY8wGjC4c46bBmcOjWWR5PsWhLytapo9puM2RdmM1bNQ7uFspNbfL18_1-c94F40bo6mMQxUMCxCOrv4IGgoKCAgBEgRl17OTDA&sa=X&ei=pQu_VIL4EdWyyASA9oGIDw&ved=0CBgQwg4oAA&biw=360&bih=559#imgrc=kCLvCdJVbBnAZM%253A%3BrF9xC6e074SUZM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fphotos1.blogger.com%252Fblogger%252F764%252F231%252F1600%252FAlfredEW.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fgoodproblem.blogspot.com%252F2005_09_01_archive.html%3B653%3B758

Cosmic Gut was grazing in a high rarefied atmosphere of a mountain top and ate some of  that special grass. He got light
headed and now we are seeing the results. We are waiting for more of his visions. While back on earth; Today if you ask a car dealer to let you see something for 10 grand, he'll show you the door!



                                              Alfie

[Jitendra Hydonus]

Hi Jitendra,
What perfect timing... I've been doing a little research lately on different paths and am beginning to question particular aspects of religion as well.
I've briefly read up on what it means to be a satanist and have had a curiosity in understanding the origins of demons. During my studies I've read experiences of devotees/followers of the satanist path sharing why it is they've embraced satanism. A few say they follow the path after having felt the presence of Satan and to my surprise, their experience is similar to other stories described by those who have encountered the presence of Jesus Christ.

"unexpectedly and suddenly I felt a powerful and overwhelming presence. I was so shocked and surprised by that usual experience (never had anything even remotely similar) and all I could do was ask in mind who was that and… I received clear, strong and even more shocking answer: SATAN! Uninvited and confusing joy and energy flooded through me. It was so incredible, so intense, I felt complete union with Satan. I can’t describe that in words, it was too amazing. As if I became god, all powerful, everything at once, felt power of creation and destruction, full of energy and much, much, much more! It was complete ecstasy! You can’t be the same after that experience. I just felt in love with Satan in an instant and there was no turning back, my heart was singing, only my mind was stuttered and confused about what to do with all that."

This is one example... And another example...

"I have a long history of drug addiction and have been depressed and suicidal for going on 10 years. That all disappeared when I dedicated myself to Satan, almost overnight! I don’t want to die anymore, I don’t crave drugs or alcohol. I can feel Satan with me always. I’m positive, at peace and even though there are still money problems, I’m actually happy, despite that.

My love and gratitude to Satan for pulling me out of the shit hole I was in goes beyond words."

Words like Love and Gratitude are emphasized and most stories seem to describe an overwhelming force of peace and joy. Below is a quick description of a lady whom says she experienced Jesus Christ
"So I knelt down by the bed, crying all the time. And then it happened. I felt this overwhelming peace and warmth. I knew it was the Lord Jesus, he was there with me. "

Most people describe this force as an instinctive knowing. I've had my own experience in the past where a surreal and undeniable force had me kneeling and "kissing the masters feet" so to say. There was a stone and a dove in my backyard and I felt I was in the presence of a Master.

Where are all these feelings coming from ? Maybe it is as Mccoy has stated... That Religion is a way to direct spiritual energy. Maybe, we are all learning through religion how to tune into a divine frequency.

Thanks for clearing up this post on the phone and making adjustments here. i see you are giving examples of other people, and not yourself and trying to show the similarities of some experiences of both Satanists and Christians. Interesting! Is it possible this is true because they both lie within the dualities of good and evil? Whereas some other religions-most notably Hinduism and Buddhism-include both good and evil, darkness and light, maya and truth within the framework of their religion. Seeing God himself as the creator of evil and good.

Jitendra

King James Bible

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things~Isaiah 45:7