Vedic and Western Astrology compared

[o-polly]

Just wondering, Steve. Do you ever look at charts using the sidereal zodiac or do you prefer the tropical one?

[Jitendra Hydonus]

First: i would like to know why you ask?
Second: The sidereal chart puts back the position of the chart about 22 degress. It does not effect aspects differently between the planets. i have noticed that things really do happen when the 5 degress of Gemini is hit on my tropical ascendent. Now to think that i am Taurus rising. i have a hard time seeing it. Given the amount of communication i do and the versitility and double personality elmement; i fit much better under Gemini rising. i also notice things happening at the midheaven nadir and desendent using the tropical chart. The sidereal chart is very effective when measuring the procession of the equinoxes but this is a galactic occurance based on the whole solar system and it's movement through a section of the galaxy.

It seems to me that on a personal level the tropical zodiac appeals to me. If someone can make a good case for the sidereal chart it would be interesting to me. However, i try to avoid the discrepences associated with the signs and the two systems by using something that is common to both of them. That would be transits to the planets and aspects in the natal chart.  Using vedic astrology is another approach that uses the sidereal system but there is also a lot more involved. If someone had time for both of them i think they could use elements of both. i have given quite lot of thought to this but first i would like to know how much energy you are willing to give to the subject...

Sincerely

Steve Hydonus

[o-polly]

I used to look at charts "both ways" all the time. It gave me a headache after awhile, but the way I remember it was that one of the two might be more applicable or better to "go by" than the other, depending...

The use of signs in tropical astrology seemed better suited for determining one's personality than the Vedic system. But in some cases, "destiny", "fate", etc. might show up more strikingly in the Vedic chart.

The easiest example is Adolf Hitler. If you look at just the rasi (Vedic natal chart), you see 4 planets in Aries (incl. Mars) opposite his ascendant. Of course in Vedic astrology, which is a highly predictive system, an "opposition" is deemed as such simply if the planets are in opposite signs. Degrees are less of a concern, and the same is true for all the other aspects.

But by that system, even a novice could predict, "born to raise hell".



So what I concluded was that in the horoscopes of friends and others with more muted/less distinct karma, they might look more like "themselves" using Western astrology. If someone was really going to make a big dent in the world, you would clearly see it in the Vedic horoscope.

But I don't think either system is limited in either of those ways, nor do I have any real scientific information to back up my findings.

[Jitendra Hydonus]

[Jitendra Hydonus]

Opolly i think i know you from another forum if my hunch about this is correct i am very glad to see you here as well. As you no doubt know: You are bringing up quite a big subject here. Since you have opened the door though i will precede... i have placed the western version of Hitler's chart above. Thank-You for placing the vedic chart.

i want to bring up some points for clarification that you might have already thought of:

1. Astrology is a language for deciphering soul progress and the souls lessons in this life. That is primarily my definition though i know others would disagree with me.
The point i am making here is that fame has nothing to do with spiritual growth. Lessons are shown in a chart of low and high profile people in this world. Fame or or the lack of it is only relavant in the sense of what the personal soul gains from such experiences. The lack of fame could be much more important for the things that have been done that affects others. For instance: One person meditating alone in the mountains for years might not be known by anyone but yet change the lives of many more people than 'fame' that could happen on this earth. Babaji was such an example. If it had not been for the Yogananda telling of this great avatar there would be no worldly history to show the greatness of this being and his effect on countless centuries and people.

2. Destiny is the consequence of actions put into motion this life and in other lives. This destiny can be very important in changing other peoples lives and more meaningful for those who have a spiritual destiny that changes our personal lives for the better.

3. Your points about outer (worldly) marks on remembered history (on this plain) are of interest. Your camparison of the two chart systems to make this point i find fascinating.

4. We can see events (in western astrology)that show a proclivity to being in the public eye in Hitler's chart as well. i will point them out here:

a. The same opposition is shown in the western cahrt that you saw in the eastern chart with some important differences.

b. Most of Hitler's planets are in the upper hemisphere which brings a very outward role to his life with not as much inner reflection prevalent.

c. In the bottom side of the western chart he has a Jupiter Moon conjunction which gave him an incredible ability to communicate with the public..even more so because it is in the third house.

d. He has Saturn in the 10th which gave him the tremendous responsibility he had taken towards an outward career and focus on the world. i see the most difficult part of this whole chart as being the square between Saturn and Mars/Venus in the public arena. Mercury is thrown in the sixth house western style (seventh eastern)but that makes sense since it was his 'service' that got him in trouble with the world.

e. We also see this ability to communicate in the position of Mercury to the ascendent.

f. What you do not see in the Vedic chart is Uranus in the 12th (insanity) conjunct ascendent and the Neptune Pluto conjunction that brings massive delusion to the public. Especially with the fateful connection to Jupiter and Moon in the the third.

g. You have a opposition between Uranus and Mercury involvong the ascendent which you cannot see in the eastern approach. Also a good indication to be: 'born to raise hell' as you put it.

5. In conclusion i am very interested in any other points you have to make about the vedic system and the subject you brought up about destiny as shown in a chart. i would say you have some good points: The empahsis of Aries in the Vedic system and the sign is not split up as it would be if you used the western approach. i also think it is interesting that you would bring up the larger destiny of a people in reference to the vedic system....since it also seems to affect the yugas in the procession of the equinoxes. Maybe a Sun centered tropical system applies more to personal lives since it is closer to our earth....

These are only some preliminary observations. i also thing this article may be of interest: http://www.scribd.com/doc/972037/Finding-Fame-in-The-Astrology-Chart-Hitler

[o-polly]

OK well, first I'd better tell you it's a fact that I did a lot of comparing the two systems, but that was over 20 years ago. I think astrology is the type of profession where it's better not to use a 'moonlighter' or a 'hobbyist'. To stay sharp, it needs to be practiced every single day.

I don't know the state of the predictive art now, but there was a time in India where becoming an astrologer meant about 8 years of school and 4 years as an apprentice before you could even begin your own practice.

Even though many of the charts I looked at were of famous persons (since they are commonly available), what made them seem to 'work' more clearly in the Vedic system were very clear-cut tendencies towards a single direction in life.

So for people who did not have such a straight path, you might see (for example) "Moon in the 7th house, fairly strong, waxing, with aspects from Jupiter, etc." indicating a strong tendency towards public life, but then "lord of the 1st in the 12th conjoined with the Sun" - indicating exactly the opposite, a inclination towards solitude. (Though then again that could mean someone who is famous for a short time, during the dasha period of his Moon, and then when his ascendant lord's period came up, everybody would be like, "whatever happened to....?").

So basically, the Eastern system seems more a fate-based system. And if anyone of you needs a quick dose of fatalism, look no farther than Hindu Astrology manuals. But after you do, you'll find that for many they foretell such mixed karma that you often won't be able to figure out what to conclude.

I've also looked at indications surrounding Neptune, Uranus and Pluto, which aren't traditionally regarded in Vedic astrology, though some of the younger astrologers may be using them now. Jimi Hendrix was an example of someone with a strong Uranus influence - electric, eccentric, magical. But the things that these three planets are connected with are exactly that - unpredictable by nature. So in my opinion they mostly make for a lot of wonderful after-the-fact prediction making. "Wow, just look at what yer Uranus did".

[Charmed*I'msure]

Just wondering, Steve. Do you ever look at charts using the sidereal zodiac or do you prefer the tropical one?

Just wondering, are there artic charts as well as tropical ?   

[Jitendra Hydonus]

Just wondering, Steve. Do you ever look at charts using the sidereal zodiac or do you prefer the tropical one?

Just wondering, are there artic charts as well as tropical ?   

Yes and they are skewed to remarkably favor certain houses. They follow the arctic circle. It makes me cold and dizzy to think about it. Some people like to snizzazzle your mind.

[Charmed*I'msure]

it goes without saying, but I will say it anyway, that if you follow the artic circle, or any circle for that matter, could also be a tropical or vedic circle * you will get dizzy ! and speaking of cold, this must be why Eskimos kiss rubbing noses  , charming in artic circles I am sure.

[Jitendra Hydonus]

it goes without saying, but I will say it anyway,

i don't even want to talk about it. It's a cold subject with no latitude for expansion.....

[mulaian]

hello i found myself here from another site asking astrologers to visit.i have studied and taught western astrology before taking up the study of vedic astrology.i have learnt a lot from both and have made both work for me.i believe any system can be accurate depending on your state of conciousness and intuitive abilities.for me vedic astrology gives practical direction and an understanding of my life purpose karma etc .it is used a lot for predictive purposes as that is what  alot of people will pay money for.myself i prefer not to mix astrology with money.as for fatalistic it is like a map that you can choose to go by various routes to reach your destination .by studying the effect of the stars themselves, for me it provides a spiritual focus which i believe it was meant for .we are meant to pursue our material desires in order to learn from the experience.
   western astrology for me provided an insight into certain psychological aspects of my nature and can be useful in dealing with the complex emotional and mental problems so prevalent in the west.i believe western astrology has developed along these lines to satisfy this need.there is no reason that the effects of the outer planets cannot be incorperated into the vedic chart.i hope i never stop learning.

[Jitendra Hydonus]

My specific interest is in transits which i think is very predictative in nature. i would be interested to know why you think Vedic Astrology is more predictive than transits and progression analysis in a western appraoch?

Steve Hydonus

[mulaian]

hi steve i have made good predictions using both methods but i can make a lot more sense of my manifest life using vedic techniques it has taken me some time to get to that point as it did with western system.using a particular vedic technique ashtakvarga i can tell if the transiting planet will have a good or bad effect on the house it transits which i find usefull.as i have stated any method can be accurate .as a friend once said to me on entering a room........."do you know if i was in the right state of conciousness i could predict the future by noting how the chairs are arranged around this table".....i believe this is so..its all just a matter of personal preference...nice to find this site i play my own improvised modal music sometimes and have just started modelling in clay....glad to see people like yourself the same age as me....theres still life in us boomers

[Jitendra Hydonus]

i believe that the the effects of Neptune opposition Pluto has erroded our sense of evolution. We are reaching new hieghts of evoltionary change as a race.  Especially many of the conscios boomers. Soon it will be our  younger ones who will experience it as Neptune reaches their natal Pluto as well.

Modal improvisation has dominated western music since the rise of the rockin' roll lead guitarists. Especially the pentatonic variety. i also seek out modal tonalites as you may notice in the middle section od 'Demian'. But it has become more pronounced in some of the newer songs i have channeled. i think it is a result of trying to stretch the musical sounds away from a major and minor setting. The modal feeling also seems to take in a bit of the eastern flavor.

Judging by the drop of a card in tarot and the synchronicity of events that follows a spiritual awareness i would concur about the placement of the chairs. Thanks for your insights on astrology. If you have the time it would be wonderful to here of the vedic method you use.... Jai Guru Jai Ma

Steve Hydonus

[mulaian]

hi steve you ask about the vedic method i use i assume you mean ashtak varga.although i have been studying vedic for 20 years i have had little pravtise due to my isolation and hostility from western astrologers compounded by the fact i have studied western and changed to vedic.i have learnt to tread carefully.i have been on the internet for just 4 months and am finding opportunities to do charts but sometimes irs hard to get feedback as the commercial method seems to encourage dependency and wishing to be told how to live the life.also an element of testing of worth which is a huge turn off for me.my approach is that two heads are better than one and working together to find insight on lifes problems and issues is more fruitful and of course you can learn more.empowerment is my goal with astrology so for me a dialogue of equals works better.especially as you dont get feedback from body language and feeling( which boosts intuition)as you would face to face.consequently my progress is slowed but i persevere.
   back to the enquiry i need a lot more practise with ashtak varga to fully learn its intricacies but already its a great help.basically the transitting planet is analised to determine its positive or negative interaction with all your natal planets(by simple aspect)so if jupiter transiting say the 2nd house natally is in good relation to say 6 or 7 other natal planets it would give good results and produce wealth increased knowledge and a blessed family life according to vedic rules if it was in bad relation to 6 or 7 planets in the same position it could indicate squandering of wealth input of dubious religious knowledge overindulgence in eatingrich foods etc etc.this is just one example but i hope you get the idea of how this system can work.with favourable aspects to say 4 planets the results would be mixed as quite often is the case.