Message #10212

[Jitendra Hydonus]

If this were true in all ways, why is i that some of those who are attached to body consciousness in the sense of having pain and feeling suffering have beautiful spiritual experiences ?

"""the more the consciousness is attached to body....the less spiritual experiences we will have."""

i did not say no or none...i said less....therefore implying that there are spiritual experiences...just not as many as one with less body consciousness has.

There is a balance that each of us personally must find without becoming cold to the body and cold to others in the process.... at the same time working towards the higher states of consciousness you speak of.

coldness... in the eye of the beholder.  what might seem cold to one person may not be cold to another.  

It is an interesting phenomena that i have noticed; People who have spiritual experiences often become fanatical and want to change everyone around them. Sometimes in the process they loose the human warmth they once had and others loose there attraction to them in the process.

  
i have found this also...yet i do not see them as 'fanatics'.  i see it as excitement about something good happening to them and want to share this excitement with others.  there is something written about this in the 'science of yoga'....and guruji mentions this phenomena also.

If in our spiritual experiences we can translate them to others in a way that shows love then our spiritual experiences r constructive in a social sense as well as a individual sense.If we cannot, they r limited at best and at worst can b interpreted as a callous exercise in human relationships and suppression of human warmth.

do we truly think that the masters were never callous towards their 'students'....or seemed insensitive ?  so are students callous towards students too.

my mom called me a few weeks back....she was witness to a 'yogi master' who's name i will not mention....discipline a female student while she was performing yoga in front of a crowd of people and made her cry.  would that not seem callous or insensitive ?  my mom....was dumbfounded by his actions...very upset she was. i told her in response....that the guru disciplines out of concernment towards the student....guru desires success for the student...

the guru did not appear to exude forth 'human warmth' at the time....but in truth,,,,it came from concern.

student to student....callousness can sometimes happen in order to protect oneself...a type of defense.

i am in harmony with u about your points Yoshi. When we expand our consciousness we become less identified to the body. Yet when we love someone and profess love towards them we also have a concern for their spiritual, emotional and physical needs. When we are close to another human being we do not want to appear cold to them. If we care about them we want them to know it. When someone is 'in love' this comes rather naturally. When someone 'falls out of love' it becomes more of an effort. We also can b in denial of our physical nature because of past hurts and separations that make us numb to physical expression. This is what i have found in various psychological disorders. Many psychological problems lhave religious overtones. Many people escape human encounter in a zeal for spiritual experience and in a world they create for themselves to avoid the pain of the human experience.. In the process they become isolated and numb to their own needs and those of others.

Sometimes in their enthusiasm i have had experience with (as an example) born again Christians who try to convert me when i have been in a blissful state meditating. They had no interest in meditation and in fact thought it was evil In this sense i see people who r fanatics try to change others when in their ignorance they actually r numb to the message that God is giving them in the moment.

i think as yogis we begin to realize that it is not our function to discipline others when we are students. This is a duty we give willingly to a Master or guru.

 As far as defense goes i am not sure what kind of defense u r speaking of here. Have u been attacked? .

i believe there is something dynamic happening here between Yoshi Nomaste and  Omkar. This entity is in the experience. If anyone else would like to join in they r welcome also. It is all good and for our highest purpose. Thank You everyone for your friendship and contributions to this thread. We r all trying to raise our consciousness and we r helping one another; without loosing our humanity and sensitivity towards one another in the process.

Jitendra