Moral Integrity even in war

[Jitendra Hydonus]

U.S. officials privately warn Israel to show restraint in retaliating against Hamas
In meetings in Israel, U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin conveyed to Israeli leaders that it’s important to observe international rules of warfare.

Now, Biden administration officials are amplifying that cautionary note in their own private talks with Israeli counterparts, present and past U.S. officials said. In meetings in Israel on Friday, U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin conveyed to both Netanyahu and Defense Minister Yoav Gallant that it's important to observe international rules of warfare, two current U.S. officials familiar with Austin's message said. Austin advised that Israel operate on a higher moral plane than Hamas and be careful to avoid civilian casualties, they added.

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I would even go much further in my personal assessment of the Israel people. We are dealing with a people that never understood the importance of forgiveness and the message that Jesus Christ gave us . In fact they never even saw him as a Master but held on to their version of the Bible that did not include the New Testament. They were therefore bound by the Old Testament view of  ‘ an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth’ They were such self righteous people that they murdered one of the great gurus of all time; Jesus Christ. And in their self righteousness they forcefully took land from the Palestinians and settled it.

The United States has repeatedly supported self righteousness in world leaders; people who some how felt they deserved more because they acquired more money than others. This included one dictatorship after another and supporting regimes that included the most wealthy elite in the world. The United States at some point will have to recognize we will have to ‘choose our fights’ and not impose our own misplaced priorities on other nations and struggles between nations.

[mccoy]

Austin advised that Israel operate on a higher moral plane than Hamas and be careful to avoid civilian casualties, they added.

Yesterday our national TV showed images of the main hospital in Gaza, the Al-Shifa hospital, whose underground apparently hosts the main headquarters of Hamas.

Hamas denies, but it has always been the style of these organizations, Hamas, Hezbollah and so on, to put their bases into densely populated areas, civilian buildings and so on. The population is 'something' , a shield, which will prevent Israelians from hitting.

[Jitendra Hydonus]

Austin advised that Israel operate on a higher moral plane than Hamas and be careful to avoid civilian casualties, they added.

Yesterday our national TV showed images of the main hospital in Gaza, the Al-Shifa hospital, whose underground apparently hosts the main headquarters of Hamas.

Hamas denies, but it has always been the style of these organizations, Hamas, Hezbollah and so on, to put their bases into densely populated areas, civilian buildings and so on. The population is 'something' , a shield, which will prevent Israelians from hitting.

The United Clones of Americops fought people like this unethically killing civilians; men, women and chlldren in the jungles of Viet Nam. The Viet Cong lived in tunnels under the jungle huts of civilians. No difference Mccoy. It took a whole generation of young people including myself to stop that war. The genocide we committed was atrocious. All to end communism and replace it with a dictatorship. The Communist government prevailed. It seems to suit their culture better. Who are we to decide otherwise? And who are the Israelis to decide the fate of Palestine, which they have been attempting to do ever since we helped them have their own country after World War II. We are now enabling Israel to take land and encroach on Palestinian territory. Who are the real villains here?

https://www.vox.com/2018/11/20/18080016/israel-zionism-war-1948

[mccoy]

Steve, but then, why SRF did not avoid draft for their monks? Clearly, Daya Mata and probably Bakhtananda himself considered Vietnam a war that had to be fought, and considered military service a holy duty for all Americans, even monks.

Personally, I find that the main fault of America with the Vietnam war ha been to have lost it.

The rationale behind it was sound: avoid the domino effect, the spreading of the cancer of communism around the earth.

The strategy was all wrong though. Vietnamese were like ants, human lives counted for little. A lot of bodies meant nothing to them. Too long a war for very little results.
Satan blinded the discrimination of American generals.


The Mi-Lai massacre has been considered to be the endpoint of that war. American soldiers killing innocent civilians in a Vietnamese village, which sparked widespread indignation in public opinion.

[mccoy]

...And who are the Israelis to decide the fate of Palestine, which they have been attempting to do ever since we helped them have their own country after World War II. We are now enabling Israel to take land and encroach on Palestinian territory. Who are the real villains here?
https://www.vox.com/2018/11/20/18080016/israel-zionism-war-1948

Steve, Israel might have persecuted Palestinians. Yet, the Palestinians are not justified in murdering civilians. That's a huge sin, huge bad karma, those terrorists are plunging into the worst depths of hell. we are spiritual people and we cannot by any means condone any gratuitous violence.

A direct military attack would have been perhaps justified. An attack to civilians, never. Never mind that Israelis themselves in the past killed civilians. If we want, we can start a historical analysis of the events. In both sides, that accumulates very bad karma. The same is true of course for other similar situations. The Mi-Lai massacre. The war crimes committed by Sharon, the former prime minister of Israel.

My bottom line: whosoever justifies Hamas for their recent violence, is justifying Satan and his minions.

[Jitendra Hydonus]

Most likely they avoided draft for the monks because they were aware like many monks and SRFers I knew at the time, that the war in Vietnam was not to fight communism but rather to protect capitalism around the world. The monks that I talked with did not agree with the war. I never talked with Bhaktananda about the war. I would never assume that he agreed with that war. Being in his presence alone was enough to rise above the vibration of any conflict of war. Most likely Daya Mata supported the individual lessons of the disciples she consoled but you have information I am not privy to nor to I necessarily believe. Most SRF devotees I met at the time were against the Vietnam War. I heard so many horrific stories from those who came back I can’t begin to tell you them all now. Suffice it to say I knew a pilot who told me he dropped his napalm bombs all across jungles where little children were playing and women were tending their huts. These are his exact words; “We had no idea what was below us when those bombs were dropped from the sky. All we could see were jungles.

America needed a very important lesson which Paramahansa Yogananda pointed out clearly. That is misplaced priorities. America never cared about the Vietnamese. This country only cared about their wealth investments in third world nations. That is why we fought for a dogmatic dictatorship in south Vietnam. To keep those wealthy investments. And that is why we have had a terrorist organization in the south to fund and organize the overthrow of third world nations  all through Latin America and South America. That organizations name; the School of the Americas.

America today has just a few families that own 50 percent of all the wealth. While the rest go hungry in need, without health care and homeless… living from meal to meal.  Yet that small group of wealthy  people can keep a few rich people that represent their interests in power. Most of us are sick and tired of fighting for wealthy interests of a small class of people around the world.

[Jitendra Hydonus]

...And who are the Israelis to decide the fate of Palestine, which they have been attempting to do ever since we helped them have their own country after World War II. We are now enabling Israel to take land and encroach on Palestinian territory. Who are the real villains here?
https://www.vox.com/2018/11/20/18080016/israel-zionism-war-1948

Steve, Israel might have persecuted Palestinians. Yet, the Palestinians are not justified in murdering civilians. That's a huge sin, huge bad karma, those terrorists are plunging into the worst depths of hell. we are spiritual people and we cannot by any means condone any gratuitous violence.

A direct military attack would have been perhaps justified. An attack to civilians, never. Never mind that Israelis themselves in the past killed civilians. If we want, we can start a historical analysis of the events. In both sides, that accumulates very bad karma. The same is true of course for other similar situations. The Mi-Lai massacre. The war crimes committed by Sharon, the former prime minister of Israel.

My bottom line: whosoever justifies Hamas for their recent violence, is justifying Satan and his minions.

With your above comment I would add; whoever justifies the wanton murder of civilians by the Israeli army and its recent atrocities are justifying Satans minions. This we may agree upon.

[mccoy]

With your above comment I would add; whoever justifies the wanton murder of civilians by the Israeli army and its recent atrocities are justifying Satans minions. This we may agree upon.

Of course, I agree, barring one detail. Wanton=deliberate. Evidence would suggest that there is no deliberate killing of Palestinian civilians. There is collateral deaths which are unavoidable, although Israel is trying to avoid them by warning Palestinian civilians about the places where bombs are going to be dropped. Israel presently is not promoting atrocities or renovating the war crimes of the past. It is simply defending itself by trying to eliminate what has become the main threat to its own survival.

The above is my view as a spectator of the cosmic film. From now on, I'm going to comment only as a fan of the cosmic drama. I do not want to be involved in ideologies or political influence or personal biases.
I'm going to start a new thread on this since the war is unfortunately starting.

[mccoy]

So, who are the real rascals? The child-murdering Hamas? The child-bombing IDF?

Guys, your discussions seem to suck, imo.

Let it be known, peace is not possible, as long as people can't find a way to live in it in their homes, families, peer-groups, etc.

So why waste the energy on discussing this ever-ongoing political BS?

Beats me!
Also...
I don't honestly believe that someone meditating 5+ hours per day (haven't I just recently read the claim by someone on this board?) would ever engage in such worldly discussions (let alone be the heaviest poster of any political agenda on this board)?

Uwe,
I fully understand your thought and in a way you are right.

On the other side, it is true that God created this cosmic drama for our entertainment, according to Hindu philosophy and the teachings of the great Yogananda.

In choosing to be entertained, we just choose to watch the cosmic drama unfolding as God intended. But I'm starting a new thread on that.

As far as Steve's activism, he has been like that as long as I have known him. He believes in his ideas and is a proponent of true democracy and egalitarianism. That's laudable.
I find though that sometimes he adheres too much to a group ideology. That's understandable but can cause some bias. But after all who among us is not biased?

[Jitendra Hydonus]

mccoy; Thanks for your expressed views and your civil way of carrying on a discussion. It is important and helpful to be aware and care what happens to our earth and the people living on it. We continue praying for those who face dire circumstances and grow in compassion, understanding the difficulties of living with others. Especially those who make false statements and can meet our conversations with only personal inaccuracies and critical thoughts. When those who also feel an affinity towards them, are here with common spiritual aspirations, and support of their spiritual aspirations and personal path.

[Jitendra Hydonus]

With your above comment I would add; whoever justifies the wanton murder of civilians by the Israeli army and its recent atrocities are justifying Satans minions. This we may agree upon.

Of course, I agree, barring one detail. Wanton=deliberate. Evidence would suggest that there is no deliberate killing of Palestinian civilians.

Israel conducted a series of airstrikes across the Gaza Strip, targeting multiple residential buildings, which have resulted in hundreds of casualties. The Gaza Health Ministry, run by Hamas, reported that at least 704 people were killed in a single day, including 305 children and 173 women, news agency Associated Press reported. The closure of medical facilities due to bomb damage and power shortages is compounding the crisis. The death toll from Israel's bombardment represents an alarming escalation in the longstanding Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israeli-airstrikes-escalate-across-gaza-destroying-homes-and-killing-dozens-of-people-at-a-time

[mccoy]

Steve, of course, the bombings are bad, but you failed to cite that Hamas offices have been setup into residential buildings and even hospitals.

It is widely known (but I wonder why neglected by some groups) that Israelis warn Palestinians in advance where bombings will occur

It is also widely known (again I wonder why neglected by some groups) that the strategy of Hamas and the Hezbollah in past years has been to use civilians and their dwellings as human shields.

What can I say? As I wrote in the other recent thread, Israel is no hero of this film, but the villain is clearly another one. And the villain is smart, it even managed to attract some consensus from the crowds in the film. A very bad villain makes the film more interesting.

[Jitendra Hydonus]

Steve, of course, the bombings are bad, but you failed to cite that Hamas offices have been setup into residential buildings and even hospitals.

It is widely known (but I wonder why neglected by some groups) that Israelis warn Palestinians in advance where bombings will occur

It is also widely known (again I wonder why neglected by some groups) that the strategy of Hamas and the Hezbollah in past years has been to use civilians and their dwellings as human shields.

What can I say? As I wrote in the other recent thread, Israel is no hero of this film, but the villain is clearly another one. And the villain is smart, it even managed to attract some consensus from the crowds in the film. A very bad villain makes the film more interesting.

Perhaps that is your view now mccoy but I’ve also seen you take a dramatic shift in views as for instance health. Let us see how all this unfolds. Perhaps Israel is simply receiving its fair share of karma from the ruthless murder of Jesus by the Jews and their mindset as a biased group that Jesus was no savior at all.

On another note, I did I not fail to site that Hamas has placed in residential areas, you have a already done that, I acknowledge your entry of that point. But does that justify an aggressive response on land Israel has taken from Palestine and settled for their own?

[Jitendra Hydonus]

Uwe your voice speaks for itself. Let others be their own witness of what you have said. I have answered you. I do not have to defend or apologize for my remarks. There is nothing more that I see to say to you. If I do I will.  I have responded and that is what you wanted. Many times people attempt to provoke others. My hope and prayer is that it is not your intention. Let us be at peace in our spiritual journey together.That is my response.

Uwe,
I fully understand your thought and in a way you are right.

On the other side, it is true that God created this cosmic drama for our entertainment, according to Hindu philosophy and the teachings of the great Yogananda.

In choosing to be entertained, we just choose to watch the cosmic drama unfolding as God intended. But I'm starting a new thread on that.

As far as Steve's activism, he has been like that as long as I have known him. He believes in his ideas and is a proponent of true democracy and egalitarianism. That's laudable.
I find though that sometimes he adheres too much to a group ideology. That's understandable but can cause some bias. But after all who among us is not biased?

My opinion: Leave the survival of the planet, mankind etc. to the creator. Don't try to beat a drum any harder than he / she do theirself.

Who are we?
Is it right for any "democratic" Steve-Q-Public to incessantly create waves of disharmony by promoting some political worldview / agenda? Only because he's been like that forever?

Although he had the great luck of being in the company of highly evolved souls (realized Masters like Br. T. & Br. Bh.) more and longer than many other average humans (and apparently not having learned their lessons)?

Is it right for them (or any others) to constantly (re-)create waves? Waves of disagreement, waves of negative thought? Debile waves of pointing fingers at rascals (who isn't a rascal)!

Jeez! My Beez!!

It must be the DeViL himself, guiding such a poor soul!

mccoy; Thanks for your expressed views and your civil way of carrying on a discussion. It is important and helpful to be aware and care what happens to our earth and the people living on it. We continue praying for those who face dire circumstances and grow in compassion, understanding the difficulties of living with others. Especially those who make false statements and can meet our conversations with only personal inaccuracies and critical thoughts. When those who also feel an affinity towards them, are here with common spiritual aspirations, and support of their spiritual aspirations and personal path.

@Jiten all the while this thread is theming on "Moral Integrity":
Life is not a social event, nor an online-forum. It is about realizing our true nature. To me it (very sadly) seems, you missed your chance, which when it comes, it's typically a once-in-a-lifetime chance, only, so it should not be missed.

Otherwise, I can't make any rhyme of your ways.
Sorry for that.
Ban me if you want (I won't come back) but what you practice, to me is not spiritual (yes, I keep repeating myself here). - Or live with me:
Take up my challenge and answer me, at least even once in a while. Usually you don't as long as it's not on 'formalities' re. the forum.

To me you appear as someone who likes to hear himself talk and who is full of himself, nothing more. And the world is full of such people. Way too many of them for the earth to heal any time soon... which I am praying for, because I have children. I guess, you don't.

[mccoy]

But of course, only those who have ears can listen to what's being said to them. 

...and - please - don't mistake my postings to you as any form of personal anger of mine, even if they may appear as such to you. 

I do have great compassion for all spiritual hypocrites, including myself.

Heck, Uwe, you are making me think.... Maybe I'll have to join the club of spiritual hypocrites! Sorry guys but I'm going to be egotistic, I'll spare the most compassion for myself.