Message #17380

[Jitendra Hydonus]

prevents us from seeing things as they are. This includes the desire to see things as they are.

Is this taking the view that all desire is therefore nonproductive? Would we rather see things as they are or as they are not?
We could also use the old adage: don't lose site of the forest for the trees. Or: The animal is known by its tracks.

actually, I think it might be taking the view point that all productivity is fueled by desire, and because desire clouds our perceptions, our productivity is in danger of being at odds with what is, or in the parlance of our times "unsustainable." Whether or not we desire change, change will occur, but desire can help us navigate the waters of inevitable change by allowing us to realize that we have a preference for how we would like to navigate. In these waters, we come up against the limits of what our desires can manifest. A desire is an absence, so, we have get rid our our desire in order not to be at odds with having what we desired prior to having it. And if we can't have our desire met, letting go of the impossible desires greatly brings the possible into focus. If we desire to see what is possible, to see things they are, we will necessarily lose focus, because 1, we mistakenly believe that "things" are a "way" when it is closer to the truth to see "processes" and note that they are "in action." 2, we don't see the processes as they are, but instead as we are. But perhaps that's too fine a hair to split. We exist in this dimensions as the desired manifestation from an eternal external realm. eg. When you go from one room into another, your desire manifested in the room you left. In this realm, we are finite. Our desires matter, but only relatively. In this way, our desires are like a compass, bringing us to the cosmic lessons we are destined to learn and so our desire is very productive. But the products and toxic byproducts of what our desires tend to manifest as a species seem to be very unproductive for the systems of our existence. And I can only conclude that that is a result of the way in which desire clouds perception. When it comes to the idea of spiritual clarity: without clarity, your idea of clarity is clouded. If you desire clarity, you necessarily cannot know what it is you desire, because clarity is absent. If you seek and preach that which you know you desire, can you be truly said to be seeking and speaking of clarity? If, on the other hand, in your process, you are "graced" with clarity, the fog is lifted, the veils are dropped, etc. then your desire for clarity is gone. This doesn't preclude any desire from being relatively productive, no matter how seemingly reprehensible that desire, as even destruction is a great opportunity to be productive, and to some degree, without destroying working systems, there is no ascension to higher vibrational systems. On a personal note, I'm in high favor of desires, as being bored for the next 50 or 60 years sounds very taxing. While I hope to cultivate many desires in my future, I also hope to enjoy them as fully as possible while holding onto them as lightly as possible, that I may waste as little time desiring what is not, and spend as much time enjoying what is, as I can.

Desire is eventually converted from personal will to divine will. When we are in tune with divine will our desire nature is transformed from satisfying the ego to satisfying the soul and our divine purpose. In the process we find ourselves somewhere caught in the middle until we satisfy all personal desire and exhaust those desires for a higher purpose.

I understand that you have also included the desire to be free. When we are under the compulsion of duality it is my take on it... that we still function under its sway. When free we are free of wanting to be good or bad. Do I really know though: NO
Hope i have touched on some understanding of your post RipLord. I see you have given this topic much deep contemplation.
Perhaps I am not at the same level of being cognizant. But i am expressing an interest.