Message #15984

[brock]

I feel that it is all grace. Because the guru doesn't really work externally. If the guru was external, then someone could answer the question. It's very much a lot like when people ask, "How do I know if i'm in love?" The answer is that if you have to ask you aren't in love yet. But you can work with what you have. How can we even recognize a person who is enlightened if we aren't enlightened? We can't. But since the guru is within, he guides us from within. He picks out the right person at the right time for our stage of development (our karma and circumstances). So the Guru says, "Hey! I can see myself here!" Because the outer person is reflecting the inner guru. That's how it works. It's within, and outer things, people, or symbols reflect what is inside. Some mirrors are clearer than others. There is no set of criterions you can go down 1 through 10 and check off and say, "Well, it looks like he is the guru." It doesn't seem work like that. If you are thinking you have to get a teacher, if you are in love you might have a guru.

About veneration:

It seems to me that veneration can have it's relative good aspects. But ultimately, veneration done as a way of seeking gains or rewards is probably a lower form of it. The higher form would be veneration out of love. That kind of veneration is it's own reward, isn't it? The other kind of veneration is a kind of "wheeling and dealing".


You also reminded me of a zen quote that is like, "If you meet the buddha along the path, slay him immediately." This might tie into this. Although, as long as you love someone that might be a hard teaching. There was a story about Ramakrishna and somebody came to him a told him he had to slay Kali. He went and asked her if it was okay. I wouldn't throw away the devotion just yet though.