Letting things happen.

[Jitendra Hydonus]

Have you ever noticed how we as humans bring our own agenda into relationships and our encounters with others? It is much more spontaneous if we can let things develop on their own like an organic process as compared to an artificial imposition by the ego. I have been exposed to this in myself and others lately.It amazes me how much wasted energy is used forcing things that do not happen naturally.

[guest88]

steve can you be a little more specific ? what if the other person is just being themselves ?

[Jitendra Hydonus]

steve can you be a little more specific ? what if the other person is just being themselves ?

yea It's a strange thing but many people can not accept that someone is just being themselves. Yet if it is not hurting others what of it? But perhaps this is another matter that can get wrapped into just letting things happen. Because if another human being cannot except that there are many ways to express as human beings... well then they are limiting themselves. There's a lot of that going on. There's not much you or I can do about it. It's nice to find others who can function outside those boundaries.

But I think I was expressing more about letting things flow. For instance now. What does this conversation mean? It might mean something different in your perception. So why not let it flow naturally between you and I? The meaning could evolve to something that I did not even intend.But it is symbiosis between those involved and evolves out of that chemistry of those involved.

[Jitendra Hydonus]

so there you go... I'm talking about restrictions and blocks all of us have at a certain level.

[brock]

I agree with your comments as far as I can understand them, Steve. I would like you to be a little bit clearer in what you are trying to say, but I think I get the point.


It amazes me how much wasted energy is used forcing things that do not happen naturally.

Exactly. Everything happens naturally. What we call "forcing" is an inner conflict which produces anxiety. This anxiety burns off energy. It takes a lot of energy to be anxious about things.

This is why I was saying that when you do your work, you should not overly stress the notion of willpower. Because willpower becomes anxiety in the mind. When you are trying to work with joy and calmness, that is a subtle anxiety blocking the joy and calmness from manifesting itself.  The same is true for interacting with others.

For example, imagine the pains someone might go to to have a "spiritual interaction" with someone. Isn't that kind of ridiculous on the face of it? But people, thinking they are spiritual, feel inclined to use their willpower to "spiritualize" their relationships. This becomes a sort of quixotic endeavor.

It must be said that many of the teachers out there are causing this because people try to imitate them by creating a "spiritual persona" for themselves. When we do this, don't our interactions become artificial as we act based on a mental construct? That mental construct ties up the minds energy process and takes away your spontaneity.

To be clearer on what I mean...I used to watch videos of Swami Kriyananda and would think that I should be all smiley and nice like him, in other words, imitate his personality. It is a weird sort of fetish, but there it is. You are imitating somebody, that is not genuine. So I would try to like interact with people as if I was Swami Kriyananda. So in my head was this image of Swami Kriyananda, separating me from everyone else. Really, I was just rejecting myself wasn't I? (not to pick on Swami Kriyananda - I have done this with Yogananda and many others)

Why waste our energy on these types of projections and things. We believe this is getting us somewhere. It is not, really.

I don't know if I have correctly understood your post Steve, but there it is. I think it is a great insight you put forth.

[Jitendra Hydonus]

I was just thinking about how nice it is to have you around and then saw your post above. You mentioned that you were not sure if you understood my post. Sometimes posting is a bit like playing music to me. As a musician you create and it invokes something in someone else. As a writer it has a meaning to you but the listener may have a different experience. That is the beauty of it. Writing a thread for a forum is much like starting a flow for me. Somewhat like free association to the psychologist. Both music and threads expose us to ourselves. So; Where it goes I don't have a lot of control over. You gave me a lot to munch on so I'll probably be back on this one.

[brock]

What is of all things most yielding (water),
Can overwhelm that which is of all things most hard (rock).
Being subtanceless it can enter even where there is no space;
That is how I know the value of action that is actionless.
But that there can be teaching without words,
Value in action that is actionless,
Few indeed can understand.

- Tao Te Ching

[Jitendra Hydonus]

[ author=brock link=topic=2973.msg15150#msg15150 date=1391690349]
What is of all things most yielding (water),
Can overwhelm that which is of all things most hard (rock).
Being subtanceless it can enter even where there is no space;
That is how I know the value of action that is actionless.
But that there can be teaching without words,
Value in action that is actionless,
Few indeed can understand.

- Tao Te Ching
[/quote]

That is very tao> like. P.Y. spoke so much about action.
But think of the great yogis like Babaji in the Hamalyas.
They seem actionless yet their vibration changes that of the planet.

[Jitendra Hydonus]

I agree with your comments as far as I can understand them, Steve. I would like you to be a little bit clearer in what you are trying to say, but I think I get the point.


It amazes me how much wasted energy is used forcing things that do not happen naturally.

Exactly. Everything happens naturally. What we call "forcing" is an inner conflict which produces anxiety. This anxiety burns off energy. It takes a lot of energy to be anxious about things.

This is why I was saying that when you do your work, you should not overly stress the notion of willpower. Because willpower becomes anxiety in the mind. When you are trying to work with joy and calmness, that is a subtle anxiety blocking the joy and calmness from manifesting itself.  The same is true for interacting with others.

For example, imagine the pains someone might go to to have a "spiritual interaction" with someone. Isn't that kind of ridiculous on the face of it? But people, thinking they are spiritual, feel inclined to use their willpower to "spiritualize" their relationships. This becomes a sort of quixotic endeavor.

It must be said that many of the teachers out there are causing this because people try to imitate them by creating a "spiritual persona" for themselves. When we do this, don't our interactions become artificial as we act based on a mental construct? That mental construct ties up the minds energy process and takes away your spontaneity.

To be clearer on what I mean...I used to watch videos of Swami Kriyananda and would think that I should be all smiley and nice like him, in other words, imitate his personality. It is a weird sort of fetish, but there it is. You are imitating somebody, that is not genuine. So I would try to like interact with people as if I was Swami Kriyananda. So in my head was this image of Swami Kriyananda, separating me from everyone else. Really, I was just rejecting myself wasn't I? (not to pick on Swami Kriyananda - I have done this with Yogananda and many others)

Why waste our energy on these types of projections and things. We believe this is getting us somewhere. It is not, really.

I don't know if I have correctly understood your post Steve, but there it is. I think it is a great insight you put forth.

At times though we do meet people who inspire us. We learn good character traits by being in their presence. We may even practice them and make them our own. I think we all have models. That is what a guru is all about.

Smiling does make others feel comfortable. I do find it easier to smile when I am relaxed though and when I'm feeling free of 'issues' that come up in life. Sometimes though it is good to 'assume a virtue though we have it not.'

[brock]

At times though we do meet people who inspire us. We learn good character traits by being in their presence. We may even practice them and make them our own. I think we all have models. That is what a guru is all about.

Smiling does make others feel comfortable. I do find it easier to smile when I am relaxed though and when I'm feeling free of 'issues' that come up in life. Sometimes though it is good to 'assume a virtue though we have it not.'

I'm not so sure I agree with you on all of this, Steve, all though I get where you're coming from. We have to realize the truths of spirituality as ourselves, and not merely imitate a teachers personality. That way our knowledge becomes personalized, and not merely a form of role play. As long as it's role play it will not be soul play. Imitating someone's personality has many subtle limitations. First of all, it is shallow. It is vain and phony even if it sometimes has agreeable results.

Now, for smiles.  My experience is that they have the most positive effect when they are genuine. A true smile comes from your whole being, a phony smile is calculative. It is a present wrapped with a beautiful bow but nothing inside.

[Jitendra Hydonus]

At times though we do meet people who inspire us. We learn good character traits by being in their presence. We may even practice them and make them our own. I think we all have models. That is what a guru is all about.

Smiling does make others feel comfortable. I do find it easier to smile when I am relaxed though and when I'm feeling free of 'issues' that come up in life. Sometimes though it is good to 'assume a virtue though we have it not.'

I'm not so sure I agree with you on all of this, Steve, all though I get where you're coming from. We have to realize the truths of spirituality as ourselves, and not merely imitate a teachers personality. That way our knowledge becomes personalized, and not merely a form of role play. As long as it's role play it will not be soul play. Imitating someone's personality has many subtle limitations. First of all, it is shallow. It is vain and phony even if it sometimes has agreeable results.

Now, for smiles.  My experience is that they have the most positive effect when they are genuine. A true smile comes from your whole being, a phony smile is calculative. It is a present wrapped with a beautiful bow but nothing inside.

When somebody practices an art like music or dancing they imitate models or a teacher.  When they have conquered many of the tools that their model or teacher has mastered they then are a vehicle for the the souls expression.

Each flower unfolds and blossoms in its own way and time. When we begin to understand what path others are taking to that unfoldment we are indeed opening up to a universe of widening and growing expansive possibilities.