Waking up others and ourselves

[Jitendra Hy-do-u-no-us?]

……it was my ego that hoped to help you. Inayat Khan says we mustn't wake others up who choose to sleep. You will reply to this with a point to prove. chance to see things clearly.

I am happy that you have gained insights in regards to our interchanges. I believe this may be a lesson for myself as well; which consequently makes me wonder what specifically Inayat Khan had to say on this subject; If you are able to still find it? You are right; I am ‘replying to this with a point to prove’. Hoping you will ‘prove’ it. I  have been fortunate to meet many spiritual aspirants in my life and have noticed that many of them, including myself, have this sometimes irritating quality. And so I am wondering what may be a point to prove that may be help to us both? I often think that it is really not what we have to say that is so important as what the Master’s have to say. It is often taken the wrong way anyhow when we say it.

Jitendra

[guest587]

Perhaps the divergence comes from sharing messages of doom and gloom instead of beauty and wonder. Doom and gloom can be found anywhere on this planet, with any subject. But we have failed to see the greater truth if we would instead focus on the details necessary to justify our reality while condemning another. So a point to be made with this recent post is this... Let us remember the joy in sharing the uniqueness of our personalities- allowing the other the freedom to express themselves, with the brotherhood that comes in recognizing our divine kinship with the eternal One.

Let us realize we do not have it figured out, that world affairs will continue to churn and pull one in whatever direction is necessary- but through it all we have a community here where people have shared their ideals and heart felt regards with what one considers to be sacred. We've shared art, have had a few laughs, have had some bouts of controversy, and hopefully have learned a few lessons along the way... But this message below speaks on the value of sharing... And so, from time to time- we may need a reminder of these things... That our personalities are unique. That this life is a gift, that there is a joy to be had in one anothers company- and should any of us go off in the deep end, it is not for me to tell you what is right or wrong. It is only for me to remember the blessing that is a life lived and its sacred connection with Almigthty God.


Words from HIK:

Commentary by Pir-o-Murshid Inayat Khan:

The voice of God is speaking all the time, but no one listens; therefore God has manifested as man, that He might speak with a yet louder voice. But even then man does not listen. In the time of Christ the inspiration was there, the voice was there and the divine power; but how few were those who listened and understood! ... Whenever the spirit of God has come forth in its true form, the world has been against it. Why has this been so? It is because man has two sides to his nature, one false and the other real; and before the true messenger can penetrate to the reality of a man's being, he first touches the false or unreal part, and that revolts. And in the case of a man who does not revolt, even though the light reaches him his heart is covered, and it only touches the cover. Such a man is attracted, yet he doubts.

There are egos who are not willing and ready to accept all that attracts them. The more something attracts them, the more they rebel against it, suspecting it of being a temptation. Even if they see the reality of something that attracts them they consider the tendency of being attracted to be a weakness. There are egos who refuse to accept what their friend has accepted, and refuse to admire fully what that friend has admired. And even if they really wish to accept something that their friend has accepted, they will refuse to do so. For the tendency of that ego is to swim against the tide ... building a fortified wall between the messenger and the souls who long for guidance. There are, however, those who are like lighted candles: they can light other candles and they can inspire others. But the other candles must be of wax; if they are of steel they cannot be lighted. The heart must be like wax; it must melt; if it is like steel, it cannot be illumined. ...

A person who, alone, has seen something beautiful, who has heard something harmonious, who has tasted something delicious, who has smelt something fragrant, may have enjoyed it, but not completely. The complete joy is in sharing one's joy with others. For the selfish one who enjoys himself and does not care for others, whether he enjoys things of the earth or things of heaven, his enjoyment is not complete. So it is only in this third stage that the following of the message is fulfilled, when a soul has heard and has pondered upon it, and has passed the same blessing on to others.

   from  https://wahiduddin.net/mv2/IX/IX_29.htm

[Jitendra Hy-do-u-no-us?]

I have the perception that what one may look at as gloom and doom, the other may see as a friendly reminder like a warning for travel ahead, like a road sign along the way, to give travelers a chance to see the possibilities that one may face as for instance hitting a pot hole that may be in the road ahead. Predictions and ‘signs’ along the way, which is prevalent for instance, in the Bible.

You at times may also send me such a warning, but since I have travelled that road before I no longer venture on the side of the road that you mention, and do not see it has a potential doom and gloom to my travels. I may not choose to respond to your warnings that appear to be doom and gloom because I now see your warnings as unnecessarily negative and repetitious.

I believe that we see each other as negative because of our own thoughts on such matters. The important thing is that both of us are apparently on the same road discovering new sites as we venture further along in a similar direction. I may say I need a temporary rest along the way and turn over to a roadside rest stop. You may ask well why do I need to spend time there while you want to venture forward? And my response may be that I am currently unable to explain my feelings without appearing negative to one such as yourself. Perhaps 🤔 at a later time I will be able to do so, but currently you may need to except my explanations, without them seeing negative. Similarly the same experience may apply to you when I want to continue traveling forward. 😊

[guest587]

I'm a little confused by your response- I do not see you as negative. I am not asking for you to do anything, I see your personality and our differences as a gift from God. The joy in contributing here is in recognizing the completeness of community and sharing as mentioned in the words above by HIK. It appears you are trying to hash out something from our recent past that I may have already made peace with. For those reasons, I hope whatever you are trying to say makes sense to you. If you would like to explain your self further please call me, it might help me understand you. If not, don't worry about it. I'm not painting you in any way except as Steve Hydonus- a unique human being who has a personal relationship with God. In this way, we are the same. Whether you are wanting rest or traveling forward, may your journey be blessed.

[Jitendra Hy-do-u-no-us?]

I'm a little confused by your response- I do not see you as negative. I am not asking for you to do anything, I see your personality and our differences as a gift from God. The joy in contributing here is in recognizing the completeness of community and sharing as mentioned in the words above by HIK. It appears you are trying to hash out something from our recent past that I may have already made peace with. For those reasons, I hope whatever you are trying to say makes sense to you. If you would like to explain your self further please call me, it might help me understand you. If not, don't worry about it. I'm not painting you in any way except as Steve Hydonus- a unique human being who has a personal relationship with God. In this way, we are the same. Whether you are wanting rest or traveling forward, may your journey be blessed.

As you know I have called you even though life is very challenging at times and you are not available you obviously are not abandoned. It remains to be seen whether you have truly “made peace with (it) “ Eric, I do hope so and pray for you and our other friends here.

At times we see other people close to us get angry or just upset that their views do not coincide with us. If that is the case and it is possible to take a breather between us it is best to take that route. For instance Zelensky took a breather and refrained from invading or attacking Russia but it did not work. And Putin and his colleagues invaded; so proper security needed to be provided for such aggression. In the case of Trump, we were patient with him and his supporters but they continued to ignore popular views and the will of the masses. Even though he has 90 or more felony charges he and his supporters continue with their narrative that everyone else is wrong, and not them. In fact I’ve seen personal experiences with myself and my friends where his supporters lied about us to make their views more public and credible. This can really be looked at as no other way but bullying public sentiment. There is a prevailing sentiment in the American psyche; it is I will win no matter what the cost…even if I lose my soul in the process. And; I must be right at all cost. At times there is no recourse but to stand up for the rights of others. This is not negativity or ‘rehashing issues’  but rather justice and showing spiritual solidarity, against forces of darkness continuing to express their intents and purposes as well as ambitions against humanity.

I do believe the message you have provided below and think we both can find inspiration in it to to melt our hearts also for illumination.

There are, however, those who are like lighted candles: they can light other candles and they can inspire others. But the other candles must be of wax; if they are of steel they cannot be lighted. The heart must be like wax; it must melt; if it is like steel, it cannot be illumined. ...

by Pir-o-Murshid Inayat Khan

Let us pray for such heart 💜 felt love and illumination. We are appreciative of your comments by Inyat Khan

[guest587]

Thanks Steve, I appreciate how much time you've spent on your post.

I don't want to look at differences as a matter of a winner or loser- I do not believe I am always right and I don't think you do either. So it is not all Americans you are describing in red font. Unfortunately, it seems this is something you've experienced more often. I have endured a similar experience and have had to learn how to navigate circumstance so as to carry on and make peace. Do you think this is a recurring theme in your life because you deeply wish to understand it? If I may say, there seems something karmic to these instances you've shared with me over the years. Weren't you falsely imprisoned and repetitively targeted for being different?

I just watched a fascinating documentary that I think would interest our spiritual community. It is a true story and you and a few other members here can probably speak on it with more authority than myself. It's called Wild Wild Country which is a 6 part documentary on Netflix about Bhagwan(later known as Osho) and the Rajneesh movement.

The documentary starts with explaining this little town in Oregon called Antelope- and then introduces you to Bhagwan as a spiritual leader in India. It really blew me away how many were captivated by this man, and how many people worked to come together and create their own commune in Oregon next to Antelope. I mean, there are videos of people on tractors smiling and laughing as they plow earth to make their own roads, electricity, plumbing, they even create their own airstrip.

It takes an interesting turn because it puts a light on the conflict of two wildly different cultures. One culture was thrusted upon an already existing community and way of life. This was considered a violation to many, and those enlightened fellows considered the people of Antelope as less intelligent(a mistake in my eyes). It would seem Bhagwan wanted to test Americas principle in freedom of expression as well(aside from escaping legal complications in India. But I think he just piggy-backed off this notion to secure his new home after trying to escape troubles elsewhere). I found the greater law here in the US worked to extricate an entire group of people out of the city. Their beliefs were so different from the middle-class Christian oriented country folk who wanted peace and quiet. The town could have probably been counted with fingers and toes before Bhagwan came and brought his followers. And for such drastic change and opposing views to be living as neighbors, you can't imagine the chaos and trouble that came about from both sides.

Neither was the winner in my eye, but the people of Antelope think they won when the law moved to extricate Bhagwan from the US(they were so proud they had a statue installed after his removal as a testament to what people had to endure with a quote about evil triumphing when good men do nothing) and the Sannyasins say they've won because the movement is still alive and Osho's book are selling to this day. And the Sannyasins thought they too were fighting evil. Maybe in the end they were both right. But the violence that came about from both sides- one side blowing up a hotel and the other side poisoning an entire community, there are no winners with these actions. And what about the discord brought upon by the politics of the Rajneesh commune itself? Well, a woman was willing to kill a man behest the dictates of Bhagwan's personal secretary. This mans crime? Talking to Bhagwan in private and saying things that would startle the secretary(who had been recording the Bhagwan without his knowledge. The sheer volume she had in secret recordings were considered one of the biggest spy scandals of the time).

It was also interesting to see how the news and law enforcement worked in favor of one type of community over the other. Of course we can draw many parallels to today. Like, the law isn't always right. Or what is considered, "popular sentiment" isn't always right either. And I believe Osho or Bhagwan was a real Master despite all the controversy that followed. Everyone had their reason for doing what they thought was right. And this wasn't a mentality strictly reserved for Americans. I believe Bhagwans secretary held a similar sentiment- she was attracted to power and had to win no matter the cost. If anything this tale with Bhagwan makes for interesting psychology. Watching the people who worked the closest to him speak, and watching what the towns people went through- and actually, the world. Well. There is something for everyone. A truly deep and moving experience had occurred as a result. I wonder if anyone reading this post has seen the film? I highly recommend if not. It may even place a light on ones personal predicaments and provide insights not previously considered.

[Jitendra Hy-do-u-no-us?]

Eric you are talking about osho we both know of him thru Brock I am talking about Trump and the hate he has generated in this whole area of north west Michigan and I also saw it in Tennessee when I was there this spring. All over this side of the state signs saying ‘f&$ck’ Biden and flags for Trump mixed with confederate propaganda. It is easy to shift the blame my friend but it is the work of one evil man that like Adolph Hitler people follow unquestionably.  And because I continuously speak of the danger and polarization he has brought to this country you and others continually speak of me being obsessed. But it is him obsessed with winning when in fact he and his followers can not admit defeat. Even though he lost and committed all kinds of crime’s pretending and even writing books on how to appear a winner when you are in fact a loser, people identify with being right and and being a winner and they will ignore all laws against humanity and democracy to have this man back in the White House. For the crimes he committed we would have been in jail for a life time; ninety some felonies at this time.

It may or may not interest others that Osho also lived a challenging life. We experienced some of his philosophical views and thought through our friend Brock here at the portal. We have not seen him in some time and yes I would say there were Christians who found his life style a challenge to their way of life also although I was not there to experience it. Think of all the challenges Paramahansa Yogananda had in this country when he came here and the challenges Jesus had as well. As you know he was crucified for his differences.

I do not believe ‘public sentiment’ to always be right either but it does appear to me you have been falsely enamored by Donald Trump. And we do live in a democracy not in a dictatorship as Donald continues to emulate and promote during his presidency and attempts to become one again. What would he overthrow the government with and replace it with?  He never really explained that but rather just promotes the praise of demagoguery and wanting to make himself a demagogue himself.

The election denier…. Now owes millions…

Lawyers bail on MyPillow’s Michael Lindell, saying he owes millions in fees
Citing shortfall, two law firms seek to terminate representation of 2020 election denier. Will he continue peddling his propaganda against free and fair elections? And will people continue supporting his false claims?

https://apple.news/AyG2cq4rGQS6986Y3O1349w

I will now support my view given in a thread I created called ‘Demagogues’.

[guest587]

Steve,

Just want to take a moment- tune in, and let you know you are entirely loved.

I hope today brings your life joy and excitement. Maybe nature speaks to you in ways others can not, or maybe your heart is filled with Divine Gratitude from a meditative experience.

Whatever happens, may the day be yours!

[Jitendra Hy-do-u-no-us?]

Steve,

Just want to take a moment- tune in, and let you know you are entirely loved.

I hope today brings your life joy and excitement. Maybe nature speaks to you in ways others can not, or maybe your heart is filled with Divine Gratitude from a meditative experience.

Whatever happens, may the day be yours!

Namaste friend; you are appreciated and your kind response helps leave me appreciation of our friendship and contributions to our site. I suppose you could say that magic can even happen on the internet, if you are aware that life can bring kindness and love. I hope something good happens to you today!

[Jitendra Hy-do-u-no-us?]

To show my point further we have people in this country who emulate our last president and his idea of ‘winning’ at all costs. Moral or immoral.

The Atlantic article also described Trump's 2018 visit to France for the centennial anniversary of the end of World War I, where, according to several senior staff members, Trump said he did not want to visit the graves of American soldiers buried in the Aisne-Marne American Cemetery near Paris because, "Why should I go to that cemetery? It's filled with losers." During that same trip to France, the article reported, Trump said the 1,800 US Marines killed in the Belleau Wood were "suckers" for getting killed.

This shows an utter disregard for the courageous soldiers who fought and died for this country; a total disregard for human compassion and ability to empathize or support our soldiers in battle, and the sacrifices they made for our country and the world, at a time  when tyranny was thriving in Europe.

Do we need another president like this who calls our soldiers ‘losers’ because they died for our freedom? A ‘man’ that doesn’t even recognize the courageous sacrifices others have made for us and the world? I would hardly call him a man. He does not deserve even that respect.

John Kelly, the longest-serving White House chief of staff for Donald Trump, offered his harshest criticism yet of the former president in an exclusive statement to CNN.

Kelly set the record straight with on-the-record confirmation of a number of damning stories about statements Trump made behind closed doors attacking US service members and veterans, listing a number of objectionable comments Kelly witnessed Trump make firsthand.

"What can I add that has not already been said?" Kelly said, when asked if he wanted to weigh in on his former boss in light of recent comments made by other former Trump officials. "A person that thinks those who defend their country in uniform, or are shot down or seriously wounded in combat, or spend years being tortured as POWs are all 'suckers' because 'there is nothing in it for them.' A person that did not want to be seen in the presence of military amputees because 'it doesn't look good for me.' A person who demonstrated open contempt for a Gold Star family -- for all Gold Star families -- on TV during the 2016 campaign, and rants that our most precious heroes who gave their lives in America's defense are 'losers' and wouldn't visit their graves in France.



There is a prevailing sentiment in the much of the American psyche; it is I will win no matter what the cost…even if I lose my soul in the process. And; I must be right at all cost. This can be proven by the misguided votes given to such a ‘man’.

~Jitendra Hydonus

[guest587]

With regards to what you've quoted me saying in your first post of this thread... I will elaborate. Hazrat Inayat Khan says it is a sin to wake those up who are not ready to do so. If I can find more of his words I will share.. For now this is what I've found,

Very often people make an effort – but in vain – to awaken a friend or a near relation whom they love. But in the first place we do not know if that person is not more awakened than we ourselves, and we may be trying in vain. And the other point is that a person may be asleep and needs that sleep. Waking him would be a sin instead of a virtue. We are only allowed to give our hand to the one who is turning over in his sleep, who desires to awake. Only then a hand is given.

https://wahiduddin.net/mv2/XIV/XIV_19.htm

What interest me is that in an earlier post above(in this thread) you were mentioning warning others about potholes on the road and something about paths already traveled and knowing better or, finding others who also issue warnings as repetitive and negative. In fact the quote you have of me in my initial post, I could see I too felt I was warning others as you continue to do with your political views. So, we are not so different after all.

But I realize now reading HIK words that we don't know where others are in their journey- if some choose to sleep, that is their choice. And maybe people here are already aware of what we're sharing and have their own attitudes about it? It's a little something like unsolicited advice. So I am working on not being so attached to my political post and encouraging participation with discussion of world affairs at ones discretion. But I am also working on not giving out unsolicited advice or hammering warning signs all over the beautiful paths we may stumble upon in this journey we call life. It's a work in progress for sure, Brother.

I also remember reading a post of yours with regards to astrology and this great awakening process- about a time of great corruption being exposed. Too true friend. This is what I've noticed since Trumps presidency. Which is why I find it more and more important to holdfast to spiritual values like practicing kindness for others or taking time in stillness and to enjoy the fresh air. Or even, to explore things of interest that are not political.

In my post above with regards to Bhagwan and the people of Antelope- both sides thought they were fighting evil. Both sides shared similar concerns too, as I can see now with people who maintain an interest in politics. Even though these communities were seemingly opposite, the line they reside on is one and the same. As I have also said, it isn't for me to say who is right and who is wrong. Another spiritual practice I find my self exercising in our community.

Personally, I think-  "I'm right and you're wrong" is all too common in this world of duality, and is history repeating itself. I think this attitude serves as an impetus for a personality to discover as intended, but may also mean being born again in this school house we call 3D human life experience. Our brothers and sisters here have cautioned us we've put one too many road signs along the way. So I hope we're able to also make beautiful paths free of obstructions as well.

Namaste friend!

[Jitendra Hy-do-u-no-us?]

Eric I find that you have some very good points in your last post. And your current perspective brings a welcome response from me. There may be a time we see eye to eye as we have in the past, As I have titled the thread ‘ Waking up others and OURSELVES.’

[Jitendra Hy-do-u-no-us?]

Steve,

Just want to take a moment- tune in, and let you know you are entirely loved.

I hope today brings your life joy and excitement. Maybe nature speaks to you in ways others can not, or maybe your heart is filled with Divine Gratitude from a meditative experience.

Whatever happens, may the day be yours!

Thanks Eric i have an appreciation for our friendship and have no issues with you at this time to speak of. I just pray for you and thank God we have met one another at this very important moment as we remember our mutual interest in meditation and spiritual guidance and remind each other of our good fortune 🔮 together here! As you know we both have a wonderful relationship with Mother Nature that we share together as we explore her endless wonders and treasures.