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Krishna and Arjuna speak of war in the Bhagavad Gita

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Jitendra Hy-do-u-no-us?
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« on: Apr 30, 2020 05:49 am »

You know, Ram Dass would keep a photo of his Guru next to a photo of the politician that most enraged/saddened him, and he was practice a Love Meditation where he would start with his Guru, and then try to feel the Same Love for the the politician who disgusted him.

We are all God, playing different characters in the temporary dream... some heroes, some villains (which can be different depending on who ask..)

🙏🏻

Krishna and Arjuna speak of war in the Bhagavad Gita

This is a selection from the Bhagavad Gita, the most important part of the Mahabharata.  Krishna, a god, has accompanied Arjuna, our hero and a warrior, into battle.  

There [on the battlefield] Arjuna saw his uncles, grandfathers, teachers, maternal uncles, brothers, sons, grandsons, and comrades. (1.26)

Seeing fathers-in-law, all those kinsmen, and other dear ones standing in the ranks of the two armies, (1.27)

Arjuna was overcome with great compassion and sorrowfully said: O Krishna, seeing my kinsmen standing with a desire to fight, (1.28)

My limbs fail and my mouth becomes dry. My body quivers and my hairs stand on end. (1.29)

The bow, Gaandeeva, slips from my hand and my skin intensely burns. My head turns, I am unable to stand steady and, O Krishna, I see bad omens. I see no use of killing my kinsmen in battle. (1.30-31)

I desire neither victory nor pleasure nor kingdom, O Krishna. What is the use of the kingdom, or enjoyment, or even life, O Krishna? (1.32)

Because all those, for whom we desire kingdom, enjoyments, and pleasures, are standing here for the battle, giving up their lives and wealth. (1.33)

Teachers, uncles, sons, grandfathers, maternal uncles, fathers-in-law, grandsons, brothers-in-law, and other relatives. (1.34)

I do not wish to kill them, who are also about to kill, even for the sovereignty of the three worlds, let alone for this earthly kingdom, O Krishna. (1.35)

O Lord Krishna, what pleasure shall we find in killing the sons of Dhritaraashtra? Upon killing these felons we shall incur sin only. (1.36)

Therefore, we should not kill our brothers, the sons of Dhritaraashtra. How can we be happy after killing our kinsmen, O Krishna? (1.37)

Though they, blinded by greed, do not see evil in the destruction of the family, or sin in being treacherous to friends. (1.38)

Why shouldn't we, who clearly see evil in the destruction of the family, think about turning away from this sin, O Krishna? (1.39)

With the destruction of the family, the eternal family traditions are destroyed, and immorality prevails due to the destruction of family traditions. (1.40)

And when immorality prevails, O Krishna, the women of the family become corrupted; when women are corrupted, social problems arise. (1.41)

This brings the family and the slayers of the family to hell, because the spirits of their ancestors are degraded when deprived of ceremonial offerings of rice-ball and water. (1.42)

The everlasting qualities of Varna and family traditions of those who destroy their family are ruined by the sinful act of illegitimacy. (1.43) (Note: Varna means color, or the make up and the hue of mind; a social division or order of society such as caste in India.)

We have been told, O Krishna, that people whose family traditions are destroyed necessarily dwell in hell for a long time. (1.44)

Alas! We are ready to commit a great sin by striving to slay our kinsmen because of greed for the pleasures of the kingdom. (1.45)

It would be far better for me if the sons of Dhritaraashtra should kill me with their weapons in battle while I am unarmed and unresisting. (1.46)

Having said this in the battle field and casting aside his bow and arrow, Arjuna sat down on the seat of the chariot with his mind overwhelmed with sorrow. (1.47)

Lord Krishna spoke these words to Arjuna whose eyes were tearful and downcast, and who was overwhelmed with compassion and despair. (2.01)

The Supreme Lord [Krishna] said: How has the dejection come to you at this juncture? This is not fit for an Aryan (or the people of noble mind and deeds). It is disgraceful, and it does not lead one to heaven, O Arjuna. (2.02)

Do not become a coward, O Arjuna, because it does not befit you. Shake off this weakness of your heart and get up (for the battle), O Arjuna. (2.03)

Arjuna said: How shall I strike Bheeshma and Drona, who are worthy of my worship, with arrows in battle, O Krishna? (2.04)

It would be better, indeed, to live on alms in this world than to slay these noble gurus, because, by killing them I would enjoy wealth and pleasures stained with (theirs) blood. (2.05)

Neither do we know which alternative (to beg or to kill) is better for us, nor do we know whether we shall conquer them or they will conquer us. We should not even wish to live after killing the sons of Dhritaraashtra who are standing in front of us. (2.06)

My heart is overcome by the weakness of pity, and my mind is confused about Dharma. I request You to tell me, decisively, what is better for me. I am Your disciple. Teach me who has taken refuge in You. (2.07) (Dharma may be defined as the eternal law governing, upholding, and supporting the creation and the world order. It also means duty, righteousness, ideal conduct, moral principles, and truth. Adharma is an antonym to Dharma. Expert guidance should be sought during the moment of crisis.)

I do not perceive that gaining an unrivaled and prosperous kingdom on this earth, or even lordship over the gods will remove the sorrow that is drying up my senses. (2.08)

After speaking like this to Lord Krishna, the mighty Arjuna said to Krishna: I shall not fight, and became silent. (2.09)

O King, Lord Krishna, as if smiling, spoke these words to the despondent Arjuna in the midst of the two armies. (2.10)

The Supreme Lord said: You grieve for those who are not worthy of grief, and yet speak the words of wisdom. The wise grieve neither for the living nor for the dead. (2.11)

There was never a time when I, you, or these kings did not exist; nor shall we ever cease to exist in the future. (2.12)

Just as the Atma acquires a childhood body, a youth body, and an old age body during this life, similarly Atma acquires another body after death. The wise are not deluded by this. (2.13) (Atma or Atman means consciousness, spirit, soul, self, the source of life and the cosmic power behind the body-mind complex. Just as our body exists in space, similarly our thoughts, intellect, emotions, and psyche exist in Atma, the space of consciousness. Atma cannot be perceived by the senses, because, the senses abide in Atma.)

The contacts of the senses with the sense objects give rise to the feelings of heat and cold, and pain and pleasure. They are transitory and impermanent. Therefore, (learn to) endure them, O Arjuna. (2.14)

Because the calm person, who is not afflicted by these feelings and is steady in pain and pleasure, becomes fit for immortality, O Arjuna. (2.15)

There is no nonexistence of the Sat (or Atma) and no existence of the Asat. The reality of these two is indeed certainly seen by the seers of truth. (2.16) (Sat exists at all times -- past, present, and future. Atma is called Sat. Asat is a notion that does not exist at all (like the horn of a rabbit, or the water in a mirage). The one that has a beginning and an end is neither Sat nor Asat. The body is neither Sat nor Asat, or both Sat and Asat, because, it has a temporary existence. Mithya is the one that appears Sat at first sight, but is really Asat. Body, like the universe or Jagat, is called Mithya.)

Know That, by which all this (universe) is pervaded, to be indestructible. No one can destroy the indestructible (Atma) . (2.17)

Bodies of the eternal, imperishable, and incomprehensible soul are said to be perishable. Therefore, fight, O Arjuna. (2.18)

The one who thinks that Atma is a slayer, and the one who thinks that Atma is slain, both are ignorant, because Atma neither slays nor is slain. (2.19)

The Atma is neither born nor does it die at any time, nor having been it will cease to exist again. It is unborn, eternal, permanent, and primeval. The Atma is not destroyed when the body is destroyed. (2.20)

O Arjuna, how can a person who knows that the Atma is indestructible, eternal, unborn, and imperishable, kill anyone or cause anyone to be killed? (2.21)

Just as a person puts on new garments after discarding the old ones, similarly Atma acquires new bodies after casting away the old bodies. (2.22)

Weapons do not cut this Atma, fire does not burn it, water does not make it wet, and the wind does not make it dry. (2.23)

This Atma cannot be cut, burned, wetted, or dried up. It is eternal, all pervading, unchanging, immovable, and primeval. (2.24)

The Atma is said to be unmanifest, unthinkable, and unchanging. Knowing this Atma as such you should not grieve. (2.25)

If you think that this (body) takes birth and dies perpetually, even then, O Arjuna, you should not grieve like this. (2.26)

Because, death is certain for the one who is born, and birth is certain for the one who dies. Therefore, you should not lament over the inevitable. (2.27)

All beings, O Arjuna, are unmanifest before birth and after death. They are manifest between the birth and the death only. What is there to grieve about? (2.28)

Some look upon this Atma as a wonder, another describes it as wonderful, and others hear of it as a wonder. Even after hearing about it no one actually knows it. (2.29)

O Arjuna, the Atma that dwells in the body of all (beings) is eternally indestructible. Therefore, you should not mourn for any body. (2.30)

Considering also your duty as a warrior you should not waver. Because there is nothing more auspicious for a warrior than a righteous war. (2.31)

Only the fortunate warriors, O Arjuna, get such an opportunity for an unsought war that is like an open door to heaven. (2.32)

If you will not fight this righteous war, then you will fail in your duty, lose your reputation, and incur sin. (2.33)

People will talk about your disgrace forever. To the honored, dishonor is worse than death. (2.34)

The great warriors will think that you have retreated from the battle out of fear. Those who have greatly esteemed you will lose respect for you. (2.35)

Your enemies will speak many unmentionable words and scorn your ability. What could be more painful than this? (2.36)

You will go to heaven if killed, or you will enjoy the earth if victorious. Therefore, get up with a determination to fight, O Arjuna. (2.37)

Treating pleasure and pain, gain and loss, victory and defeat alike, engage yourself in your duty. By doing your duty this way you will not incur sin.
« Last Edit: Apr 30, 2020 05:51 am by Steve Hydonus » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #1 on: Apr 30, 2020 08:16 am »

Dear Steve,

Does 1.26 mean chapter 1 verse 26?

Thank you
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« Reply #2 on: Apr 30, 2020 08:38 am »

Dear Steve,

Does 1.26 mean chapter 1 verse 26?

Thank you

Yes dear friends.... thanks for taking an interest. Chapter 1 deals with the despondency of Arjuna and his refusal to fight when that was the purpose of his incarnation being born to the warrior class. This chapter is incredible to discuss and contemplate upon. On a deeper level it leads  us to an awareness of our own reluctance to fight the senses and meditate. I intend to take up this chapter on ‘God Talks With Arjuna’ for those interested. My hopes are that others will join me as I was happy to see your previous interest in the Bhagavad Gita and joined you in the past. In the Bhagavad Gita I find an interesting twist in its view of spirituality that I have not encountered in the Bible. That is its ability to express the need to also fight when it is necessary and why one should give rise to courage in our spiritual discipline and battles to overcome our lower nature. No doubt to some extent this despondency we face on our spiritual journey is discussed in many spiritual books but i have yet to see it so well explained as in the Bhagavad Gita.
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« Reply #3 on: Apr 30, 2020 10:36 pm »

As expanded on by Paramahansa Yogananda, Arjuna in all of us represents the firey will power in the lumbar centre. The Gita elaborates on the devotee's (Arjuna) everyday battle to establish King Soul as ruler over King Ego. This is a scientific approach(disciplined route) to God/Self Realization, a tale of self Vs Self. As a friend I caution not take this text as literal war with other human beings and kill them(there are no winners in war) but as one who is a unique expression of God I can only smile at whatever path is yours and try to be of service whenever possible. Perhaps I can better understand you now that we've opened up this discussion. I will quote just one section I was able to read over so that the masters words might be more clear than what I've been able to relay. Lastly I ask that you redirect you attention to the words of Hazrat Inayat Khan after reading this, who elaborates on Truth and the idea of right vs wrong.

Since you own a copy of the Gita with Yoganandas words explaining to us the significance of each stanza, I think it important to read the few verses leading up to this stage wherein Yogananda explains this...

Quote
The Mahabharata tells us that in the battle between the good Pandus and the wicked Kurus, Krishna became the charioteer of the noble Pandu brother, Arjuna. The interpretation of this allegory is that when man's firey self-control (Arjuna) is ready to battle all the forces of the senses, then the Spirit (Krishna) becomes the devotee's charioteer, or guiding power. The spirit expresses Itself through the instrumentality of the intuition of the soul, Spirit's individualized reflection in man.

In the first stage of meditation, the devotee's mind is inextricably bound up with the sense consciousness. His mind is concentrated upon material sounds and restless thoughts. He is aghast to behold all the forces of restlessness and mental opposition arrayed against him. Millions of superficial devotees never pass beyond this state of a deadlocked psychological struggle between the senses and the soul forces of calmness and intuition.

Quote
The devotee who is victorious in the initial psychological battle enters the second state of meditation, the metaphysical battle wherein his consciousness and life energy become centralized in the spinal centers. He sees himself as a warrior on the battlefield of the spine- the common field of spiritual forces and of the opposing mental or sense tendencies in their subtle form. When this battle is about to begin, the devotee feels a simultaneous pull toward the outgoing sense tendencies in the spinal centers and toward the inwardly turned spiritual forces of the soul. It is then that the devotee contacts the calm Spirit within and prayerfully asks that Divine Power to place the chariot of intuition between the subtle divine perceptions and the gross sense perceptions.

Quote
The duality of consciousness, the progenitor of all states of both good and evil, with their common ancestor of the Absolute, or Cosmic Consciousness, will now be the cause of a painful quandary in the devotee. The Bhagavad Gita- a comprehensive metaphysical and psychological treatise- describes all experiences that come to the spiritual traveler on the path of emancipation. Thus far, concentration has been primarily on the positive states the devotee is striving toward. In the verses that follow- to the end of Chapter I and the first part of Chatper II- warning is given as to the negative states that try to intimidate the devotee and turn him from his goal. 'Forewarned is forearmed!' The devotee who understands the route he must travel will never feel unsure or dismayed at inevitable opposition.

On mastery and truth,
http://spiritualportal.net/index.php/topic,4740.0.html
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« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2020 03:49 pm »

All the things you have said about the inner battle are true. However there are also outer battles that we are required to fight. So the Bhagavad-Gita is not just an allegory but advice on the inevitability of some battles on this earth that we face and are appointed by divine decree of destiny to struggle and fight with. If the history was not true and Jesus and Arjuna only were stories to show a deeper meaning; what relevancy would they have as an example to us who also experience our lives...  we don’t just vicariously live them. One of the distinct differences-I see- about this realm; as compared to the astral realm is that here in the material realm—we are able to work out much more karma and desire. With this ability also comes the sufferings associated with the 5 senses and the physical phenomena with a physical/material body. It is a much more condensed limited sphere of existential existence.
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« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2020 10:13 pm »

Brother! The lord delights in us using our faculties in order to pursue Him and demonstrate creative solutions! I pray not to be enslaved because of some lofty desire which pulls me to defend an arbitrary ideal! You might still exercise your faith and escape the either/or predicament that many would succumb to.

What the hell do I know, I'm a ditzy 6'5 man-beast fighting both past and future.  Grin Grin I have shattered the glass in space while wrestling the self.

The limits are in place should you accept them. Faith has been known to transcend natural law. Look to the levitating Saint or those who have survived off nourishment from the Sun alone. It's not that natural law does not apply, it's that their Understanding of said Law has widened!

To open the Mind you must first open the Heart!
 
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« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2020 12:42 am »

Brother! The lord delights in us using our faculties in order to pursue Him and demonstrate creative solutions! I pray not to be enslaved because of some lofty desire which pulls me to defend an arbitrary ideal! You might still exercise your faith and escape the either/or predicament that many would succumb to.

What the hell do I know, I'm a ditzy 6'5 man-beast fighting both past and future.  Grin Grin I have shattered the glass in space while wrestling the self.

The limits are in place should you accept them. Faith has been known to transcend natural law. Look to the levitating Saint or those who have survived off nourishment from the Sun alone. It's not that natural law does not apply, it's that their Understanding of said Law has widened!

To open the Mind you must first open the Heart!
 

Yes anything is possible and God can change things in a snap. But this I do know; I would not defend this nation as long as we have leaders who have lost their rational faculties and are working against most other nations to destroy Mother Earth. No; first I would work to remove those evil forces that control our government. As Lincoln new slavery was a curse to this nation and removed Jefferson Davis from power so will I work in defense of our planet....I know that Fuhrer Trump and his subservient followers are the most evil forces we have known in our life time to this nation and also to the world. At the bases of the south’s views in the past was slavery and keeping it as an institution in or nation. Regardless of all the other worthy causes that the confederacy had this one was fundamentally cruel and evil. Once again; although the south and other red states do have some worthy causes, until they admit that our way of life is destroying our environment and the poor are getting poorer while rich get richer-there will be a larger and larger division of this nation that could be just as bad as the civil war.

There is no hope for our planet only despair. It does not take much to open your eyes and see the environmental disasters that these idiots are doing to our dear Mother Earth.  Every day I go outside I realize how much the rivers are overflowing all over the forests and houses are falling over cliffs and flooded in lowlands. The land is eroding, falling into the Great Lakes while swimming areas become more and more polluted and farmland destroyed with no hope of planting. It does not take a genius to recognize that but it takes an ignorant group of people to encourage it to get worst and that is exactly what we have with the Trumpsters. I am responsible for myself not those who choose to put their heads in the sand ostrich like and ignore the facts. A nation divided will not stand. That is what this nation has come to. We have leaders who can not even understand natural laws. They have no faith but constantly ignore faith and lie pathologically. How will such people ever manifest miracles when they defy natural laws of nature in their ignorance?
« Last Edit: May 02, 2020 03:28 am by Steve Hydonus » Report Spam   Logged

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For CD\'s of music by Steve or hydonus@yahoo.com

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