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POLITICS & SOCIETY
ISRAEL AND PALESTINE: On Hope and Possibility
Firelight Chat this Wednesday 6pmET
JUN 12, 2023

This week’s Firelight Chat will be an interesting one.

Throughout my career I’ve counseled couples, and rarely have I seen a troubled relationship - or been in one - in which one party was 100 percent correct and the other 100 percent wrong. In working with couples it is not my role to be judge and jury, but to create the possibility for deeper listening in the space of which non-judgement and compassion can emerge.

That is part of the skill set I believe I bring to the race for the presidency. I have come over the course of my lifetime to be deeply aware of the grey areas in life. All of us are flawed human beings, and on another level most of us are doing our best simply trying to survive.

For that reason perhaps, I feel a unique ability to view the relationship between Israelis and Palestinians with the nuance most needed now. Those who view the relationship only through the lens of victimization on either side, lacking in compassion or willingness to understand an experience that is not their own, are not the harbingers of a better way. 21st Century problems - including this one - will not be solved on the battlefield, but rather through forging a consciousness that lifts us above it. I have met both Palestinians and Israelis, Arabs and Jews, who are ready to do that. I listen to them now, and I will empower them when I am President.

The conversation that will lead us forward is not stuck at the level of who’s right and who’s wrong. The answer lies in what the poet Rumi described as a field beyond all that. In finding that field, we will find our solutions.

https://mariannewilliamson.substack.com/p/israel-and-palestine-on-hope-and

Her view is in stark contrast to RFK JR.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has sought to define himself as “the strongest peace and freedom candidate in two decades,” while denouncing “neocons and warmongers.” At the same time, he has zealously defended the conduct of Israel’s military and justified the country’s decades-long occupation of Palestinians – even denying that any military occupation exists.

Like is Father who I admired, his view echoes that of most Christians and unlike Marianne Williamson he seems unable to understand this is not an issue that is so simple we can divide it up into ‘right’ and ‘wrong’.

https://thegrayzone.com/2023/08/03/rfk-jr-israel-palestine-dialogue/

We already know Bidens view he just sent a fleet over to ‘protect’ Israel.

And Trumps view is typically arrogant and self righteous; if he was president the whole mess would have never happened. When in reality he is a major cause of the conflict by supporting forced settlements of the Jews and even putting the capital of Israel in the middle of Palestine.

It's true, I was on RFK JR's website the other day and read he would support funding a prolonged war for Israel.

While at the top of his website it says he is going to stop all wars. Doublespeak is kind of a birthright for a politician. I'm not sure it's avoidable. 

I'm glad you would let me know Marianne Williamson is not for supporting the war. All this said, I'm still likely voting RFK JR.

There never is a perfect candidate. Even when I voted Trump, there were things I did not like. And the same with Obama. Obama has killed ruthlessly with drone strikes and signed an act that turned propaganda on its own people.

There are reports of Sorors asking America to open its doors to the Hamas and his funding open borders, which has further implicated our involvement in WW3. There are reports of Soros strategically looking to collapse nations by mass migration.

I watched this just yesterday and found it a rather interesting perspective.

PJW says Kissinger admits multicultralism and mass migration have failed:

https://youtu.be/99LdQBMoSgc?si=SlicWXnbhYJ3Ny7N

Not saying what's what here, just asking questions... What's it all about?

Eric since you have no credit or where you have extracted such one sided views to some leaders and the influence of some people to your comments about for instance -Soros- I cannot comment or really even confirm or deny your statements. However, I do think it important to assess where and how our values and views originate.

In typical extreme right wing rhetoric; your video of Paul Watson shows photos of Henry Kissinger with left wing politicians as if they were aligned with him in any way. When in fact he was Secretary of State under a right wing politician; Richard Nixon. This again shows Paul Watsons inability to make statements that make sense when presenting his views coherently. I am not supporting any political view against another here,  but rather showing the continued hypocrisy and incoherence of Paul Watsons views, as I have done many times before when you brought up his views and those of Alex Jones who hosted him for years.

On another note here; I also admired Robert Kennedy’s father but he was also a strong supporter of Israel which seems to be an example of many people with a one dimensional perspective on religious ideology. As Marianne Williamson points out there are rarely people who are all right or all wrong; a welcoming view from ‘hard core’ views expressed by such people as Paul Watson.

There is a lot of colored blindness out there and people see in black and white that have no conception of the many hues and views that surround issues and people. Eric; I attempt to stay away from one dimensional people and views. Life is seldom black and white which shows a duality in perspective. The duality we are apart of is in fact what we are attempting to rise above to reach higher ground that contains various elements of truth from both sides of the spectrum. Then arriving at decisions that belong to an enlightened state of consciousness.

The situation in Israel and Gaza right now is extremely perilous, not only for the people of those two regions but for the world.

Atrocities such as those committed by Hamas against civilians in Israel were acts of pure evil, transgressing the most basic dictates of a moral universe. The invasion did nothing to promote the cause of justice for the Palestinians; in fact, it puts the cause of justice for the Palestinians back for decades and possibly longer. Hamas is a terrorist organization, and this was a terrorist attack. The aspirations of Hamas have nothing to do with striking a peace deal with Israel. Their stated goal is the complete eradication of the state of Israel, and they will settle for nothing less.

While it is often stated – incorrectly – that the goal of Israel is the extermination of the Palestinians, in fact the stated goal of Hamas is the extermination of the Jews. Clearly they are trying, and Israel cannot be expected not to respond. No one expected the United States to not go after Al-Qaeda after 9/11, and no one should expect Israel not to go after Hamas. Of course, we did…and of course they will.

But an eye for an eye doesn’t just leave everyone blind; in this case it leaves everyone dead. Now, while I have cried for days about an event that exterminated ten times more Jews than died on the night of Kristallnacht, I am crying the same infuriated and helpless tears for the over two million people who live in Gaza, over half of whom are children.

Humanitarian corridors must be established immediately. The siege must end, and power be restored immediately so hospitals can be more than graveyards. Gazan civilians and foreign nationals must be given safe passage. There are surely phone calls going back and forth among world leaders today – including Europeans and Arabs – seeking desperately to broker some kind of humanitarian solution, to create a ceasefire and restore delivery of water, food and medical supplies.

Hamas is not the Palestinian people; in fact, Hamas displays dictatorial power over their own people in Gaza. Yet innocent Palestinians as well as Israelis are already paying a terrible price for what has happened, and their safety must be as high a priority for the world as should the safety of innocent Israelis.

Hamas has announced it will start executing the 150 hostages one by one if Israel takes military action against Gaza, leaving the hostage’s loved ones and the entire nation of Israel in a state of horrifying trauma. No person of good will anywhere in the world wants those hostages executed. The hatred spawned by such insanity would only increase the hostility that already exists between far too many Israelis and Palestinians – two peoples who we should remember lived in peace for centuries, and hopefully will live in peace together again someday. One of the tragic consequences of this situation is how many Palestinians and Israelis have worked for years to forge a better way - only to see their dreams of peace be shattered by what has occurred.

As President, in the years leading up to this I would have been far more active on behalf of an effort to broker peace between Israel and the Palestinians. Supporting Israel militarily yet not playing an active role in emphasizing the need for Palestinian justice was a failure of American leadership and a transgression against our own values. Once Trump was out of office, I would have moved the U.S. Embassy back to Tel Aviv. I would not have allowed the Abraham Accords to minimize the cause of justice for Palestinians. I would have demanded justice for Shireen Abu Akleh. I would have demanded that no military assistance provided to Israel – created by a Congressional Memorandum of Understanding that extends until 2028 -- be used in a way that supports the occupation of the West Bank, the settlements, or the blockade of Gaza. I would have worked assiduously with Middle East peace builders both there and here. I would have supported all efforts to create the resurrection of plans for a two-state solution. I would have used American power to side with our highest ally: humanity itself.

I do appreciate the moral clarity of President Biden’s speech on Tuesday. It was clearly from his heart. My clarity and compassion would have been more universal, however. I would have emphasized to the American people that Hamas is not the Palestinian people, and the Palestinian people are not Hamas. Palestinian Americans, just like Jewish Americans, would have heard in my speech both respect and support. As an American, and as a Jew, I stand with Israel. But I stand no less for the legitimate aspirations of the Palestinian people.

On Wednesday the President met with Jewish American leaders, which I would have done as well. But I would also have met with Arab-American leaders, particularly Palestinian, to begin a deeper dialogue on how the world will go forward from here -- specifically, what role America can play in trying to pick up the pieces at the end of all this. As President, I will dedicate the power of the U.S. government to creating a phoenix of peace arising from the ashes of this war. Peacebuilding will be a cornerstone of my Presidency, and the peacebuilders of the world will always have my ear. People have asked me what my Department of Peace would do in this situation? The point is that a Department of Peace could have helped prevent it.

In the meantime, President Biden is correct to have warned that other nations – clearly, I assume, a reference to Iran – should be very careful not to interfere. The President is right to be concerned about Iran’s involvement; I share that concern. The President of the United States must always be on heightened alert to protect America’s homeland as well as our interests abroad, and no American law enforcement, military or intelligence agency should blithely assume that this situation couldn’t have repercussions for us as well. I am sure that they do not.

The day after the invasion, I was sitting at an airport bar in Reno, Nevada, when I struck up a conversation with a gentleman sitting next to me. We talked and enjoyed each other’s company, and after a while he told me he’s a Palestinian-American and I told him I’m a Jew. The irony was lost on neither of us. Both of us were reminded of the world as it should be, for we were experiencing it together. It is to the achievement of that world - for every Palestinian and for every Jew, indeed for every citizen of the world - that I dedicate my life, and would dedicate my presidency.

Marianne Williamson

Marianne’s approach to this conflict is definitely more balanced - in my opinion - then Biden’s black and white view of the situation, Kennedy’s inability to ‘see’ the whole picture and Trumps arrogance, that if he was president the whole thing would never have occurred, when in fact he was a major cause of this tragedy.

Albert Einstein;  "We will not solve our problems with the same level of thinking that created them."

https://www.newsweek.com/israel-palestine-tragedy-unprocessed-trauma-opinion-1594269

MArianne Williamson sounds pretty balanced and realistic.

(Trump) He may be right in saying that the Palestinian war would not have erupted with him, since he was pushing the Accords between the Jews and the Arab world, something unheard of before.

Some journalists say here, half-jocking but seriously, that Donald Trump might have deserved the Nobel prize for peace.

Donald Tump deserves life in prison with his current 90 felony charges. He is also noted to be a supporter of dictatorships and worshipper of the likes of some of the most evil men now running other nations including but not limited to; Putin, XI and Jung Un . Fuhrer Trump can be credited with encouraging the aggressive behavior of Putin against Ukraine and the current arrogance and take over of land in the South China Sea because of his praise and glorification for Chinas totalitarian government.

United States recognition of Jerusalem as capital of Israel
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The United States officially recognized Jerusalem as the capital city of Israel on December 6, 2017.[1] American president Donald Trump, who signed the presidential proclamation, also ordered the relocation of the American diplomatic mission to Israel, formerly located in Tel Aviv (see Embassy of the United States, Jerusalem).[2][3] Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu welcomed the U.S. recognition and praised the announcement by the Trump administration. On December 8, U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson clarified that Trump's statement "did not indicate any final status for Jerusalem" and "was very clear that the final status, including the borders, would be left to the two parties to negotiate and decide" in reference to the move's impact on the Israeli–Palestinian peace process.[4]

Trump's decision was rejected by the vast majority of world leaders; the United Nations Security Council held an emergency meeting on December 7, where 14 out of 15 members condemned it, but the motion was overturned by U.S. veto power.[5] The United Kingdom, France, Japan, Italy, and Sweden were among the countries who criticized Trump's decision at the meeting.

Palestinian officials said that the recognition and relocation disqualifies the U.S. from mediating peace talks, while Hamas called for the beginning of a new intifada against Israel in the aftermath of Trump's declaration.[11][12][13] Following the U.S. announcement, there were demonstrations throughout the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, as well as in various countries around the world.[14] By December 25, 2017, Salafist militants in the Gaza Strip had fired almost 30 rockets towards Israel.

And in the home front Donald Trump is known as a Robin Hood in reverse…


Donald Tump deserves life in prison with his current 90 felony charges and noted to be a supporter of dictatorships and worshipper of the likes of some of the most evil men now running other nations including but not limited to; Putin, XI and Jung Un . Fuhrer Trump can be credited with encouraging the aggressive behavior of Putin against Ukraine and the current arrogance and take over of land in the South China Sea by ZI because of his praise for Chinas totalitarian government.

United States recognition of Jerusalem as capital of Israel
Article Talk
Language
Watch
View source
The United States officially recognized Jerusalem as the capital city of Israel on December 6, 2017.[1] American president Donald Trump, who signed the presidential proclamation, also ordered the relocation of the American diplomatic mission to Israel, formerly located in Tel Aviv (see Embassy of the United States, Jerusalem).[2][3] Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu welcomed the U.S. recognition and praised the announcement by the Trump administration. On December 8, U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson clarified that Trump's statement "did not indicate any final status for Jerusalem" and "was very clear that the final status, including the borders, would be left to the two parties to negotiate and decide" in reference to the move's impact on the Israeli–Palestinian peace process.[4]

Trump's decision was rejected by the vast majority of world leaders; the United Nations Security Council held an emergency meeting on December 7, where 14 out of 15 members condemned it, but the motion was overturned by U.S. veto power.[5] The United Kingdom, France, Japan, Italy, and Sweden were among the countries who criticized Trump's decision at the meeting.

Palestinian officials said that the recognition and relocation disqualifies the U.S. from mediating peace talks, while Hamas called for the beginning of a new intifada against Israel in the aftermath of Trump's declaration.[11][12][13] Following the U.S. announcement, there were demonstrations throughout the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, as well as in various countries around the world.[14] By December 25, 2017, Salafist militants in the Gaza Strip had fired almost 30 rockets towards Israel.

On the home front Donald Trump can be credited with ruining capitalism as we know it today … it has turned into a few families owning more than 50% of a wealth in the United States.

The Fuhrer can be credited with single handedly destroying capitalism and replacing it with a monarchy of rich people who have made the rest of the country int serfdom.

Trump administration released a one-page outline that included these major tax changes:

Abolish the estate tax, which now falls only on those with assets worth more than $5.49 million (double that for couples).
Cut the corporate tax from 35 percent to 15 percent. As we have written before, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office estimates that 75 percent of the corporate tax burden falls on investors.
Abolish the alternative minimum tax, which is designed to ensure that the most wealthy taxpayers pay a minimum tax.
Collapse the seven income tax brackets, which range from 10 percent to 39.6 percent, to three (10 percent, 25 percent and 35 percent).
In July, the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center estimated the impact of a “Trump-like plan.” Howard Gleckman, a senior fellow at the tax center, wrote that middle-income households (those earning between $50,000 and $86,000) would see an average tax cut of about $1,900 or about 3 percent. But the top 1 percent (those earning more than $732,000) would get an average tax cut of $270,000 or nearly 18 percent, and the top 0.1 percent would see a 20 percent tax cut.

“Forty percent of the benefits would go to the top 1 percent,” Gleckman wrote.

Fuhrer Trump now is credited with destroying the middle class in the U.S. and turning this country into a two class system; the extremely wealthy which own more than 50%!of all the assets of the United States by a few wealthy families and creating a two class system; the very rich and the very poor.

Mccoy this is the answer to even the thought of it;

https://youtube.com/shorts/YZD1zpg9IZ4?si=gI4R5hTPP3_XcDSB

Liz Cheney may be right, although she neglects to fully explain why.

Since the beginning of his mandate, Trump has been persecuted by the opposition for the mere reason of having been elected.

Obvious example: the alleged conspiracy with Russia. Which has never been proved.

A similar thing happened to a former PM in Italy.

I don't know if Trump can be re-elected after his latest shenanigans, but everything is possible and he may take his revenge.

Interesting plot of the cosmic drama !

Mccoy I find that responding to your posts often takes thought and consideration. And at times I’m not sure 🤔 you want a response. In fact many times in life there are things better left unsaid. From a spiritual point of view though I call attention to your comment below, which would curl and twist the ears of anyone wanting someone with spiritual representation for their country and the world.

Steve, my thought basically is that in America there has been too strong a polarization of ideologies. It has happened in Italy as well.

This is spiritually very wrong. All the talks of Obama about bi-partisanism have been lost, he too was not able, regretfully, to put in practice what he wrote in his book. Presently, he seems to have forgotten his words.

Such a polarization, the left thinking the right is the devil and the other way around, often will lead to the present unhappy situation.

In a few words, in a spiritual representation of the world and one's country, it appears evident that the situation is all wrong. And not just because of Trump.

No one has said it is all because of Trump. Why create another narrative by reading between the lines Brother? He is instrumental in unraveling democracy. He wants to take the law in his own hands and that he has proven already. We are talking about two separate issues now. Yes there is a polarization in this country and yes we have a criminal attempting to get back in office.

The government I envision is a fair vote regardless of the outcome. But Trump did not accept the outcome even though he lost by more than 5 million votes, He also lost 306 to 232 in the electoral vote. There are bullies in this country that could care less about the majority. There have always been ‘rascals’ as Anandamoy has pointed out and Lincoln was a great man who set this nation on the right course. He was a a Republican by the way. Let us not attempt to put people in separate camps as you appear to be doing. Sorry but I do not meet those neat little boxes you seem to keep trying to put me in. Let us take one issue at a time ok Brother mccoy? Not everything is all wrong. We had a civil war in this country, when more people were killed than any war since and including all wars fought here in the United Clones. That is polarization. But righteousness prevailed. Someone like the Fuhrer may have attempted to ‘ lmake deals ‘ like Fuhrer Trump bungled With Palestinian and Israel, but let us remember slavery wasn’t about selling more or less slaves. Lincoln didn’t see it that way and we don’t need a car salesman as president to make deals between nations. It is somewhat like a prostitute attempting to strike a bargain with you when you just don’t pay for sex in the first place and never have or will.

https://youtube.com/shorts/5-ERw7OK59k?si=mGNsCGl8AjjmH6bi

I do not mind discussing it friend. We are here to share views and opinions and at the same time attempting to find the truth. That is part of our spiritual challenge; to find and follow our dharma. I think we both agree on that. Let us continue to find understanding, if that is ok with you. This search for the truth and the path of righteousness is not just for a certain party, nation or left/right view. It is beyond such designations. I honestly have met cruel and kind people on both sides of the political spectrum. People and their behaviors are often much different than their ideological beliefs. Ideology does not always play out in the world as it has been envisioned. All we have to do is look at communism to see that it now is very evil in parts of the world. Yet in many ways Jesus expressed a communist communal type living. And also authoritarian regimes may have had a nice idea, and at one time, for instance Mussolini had some very good ideas for his people. But people and circumstances have a way of changing, what they were and what they become and are may be quite different. In fact some situations work in reverse. They become good where they were once evil. Let us give room for such changes in people and society.

And also recognize that some people become hardened and inflexible in their views. There is no way, but their way. I think that we should all listen carefully when those around us-especially our spiritual community-make observations about us that we find challenging to us. There may be an important lesson we are just not getting. If that be the case God and Guru attempt every angle on our views to help us make adjustments so we can see clearer.

mccoy I have answered your last comment here in the above ☝️ post but have also responded to your statement that ‘Liz Cheney never gives the reason why’. This encapsulates it for you friend but she’s fully explains it much more if you have the real desire to know all her reasons…

https://youtube.com/shorts/Uv18AB_NHAk?si=f0Xlqx8kPAdFGJtk

“Remaining  silent and ignoring the lies, emboldens the liar.”

Steve, I listened to Liz Cheney, more exactly I didn't write she never explained why, I wrote that she neglected to explain the details in the other video you posted.

Her reasons are clear, but I find that both parties have been very, very wrong.

Trump has been persecuted at the mere beginning of his mandate, in an attempt to overthrow him. I refer to the alleged Russian conspiracy, never proven.

Later on, Trump seems to have lost his mind in the episode of the Capitol assault. This has been a very serious mistake on his side, maybe a fatal one.

I understand that you consider Trump Satan incarnated, but I, although not a fan of Trump, do not consider the other party angels reincarnated.