Spiritual Portal

i have been practicing the presence for many years now. i also find that i have had lessons in mindfulness as it is an important ingredient to the spiritual life. i would like to start a discussion with experiences from members on these two aspects of the spiritual journey.

Jitendra

Hi steve!
what do you do for that ?
Prabhat Sinha

 
 What is Mindfulness Meditation?
Mindfulness is a type of meditation that essentially involves focusing on your mind on the present. To be mindful is to be aware of your thoughts and actions in the present, without judging yourself.
Research suggests that mindfulness meditation may improve mood, decrease stress, and boost immune function.

How to Try Mindfulness Meditation
1. Find a quiet and comfortable place. Sit in a chair or on the floor with your head, neck and back straight but not stiff.

2. Try to put aside all thoughts of the past and the future and stay in the present.

3. Become aware of your breathing, focusing on the sensation of air moving in and out of your body as you breathe. Feel your belly rise and fall, the air enter your nostrils and leave your mouth. Pay attention to the way each breath changes and is different.

4. Watch every thought come and go, whether it be a worry, fear, anxiety or hope. When thoughts come up in your mind, don't ignore or suppress them but simply note them, remain calm and use your breathing as an anchor.

5. If you find yourself getting carried away in your thoughts, observe where your mind went off to, without judging, and simply return to your breathing. Remember not to be hard on yourself if this happens.

6. As the time comes to a close, sit for a minute or two, becoming aware of where you are. Get up gradually.

Sources:


Kabat-Zinn J. Mindfulness Meditation: Health benefits of an ancient Buddhist practice. Mind/Body Medicine, eds. Goleman D, Gurin J. New York 1993. Consumer Reports Books, 259-275.

Thanks steve.
I usually do this a spritual book in hand. read a little and some how stillness comes.
prabhat sinha

Mindfulness in all or activities:


http://www.explorefaith.org/tnh/tnh_pm.html

Yes thanks for writing out points of interest. What was it lesson 9? in the SRF lessons Yogananda speaks of this walking meditation: Breathing in counting to 12. Holding the breath to the count of 12 and then breathing out to the count of 12. Being conscious of the breath while walking. Drawing in extra energy.

Steve

Checked lessons; see lesson 5 the count is 12/12/12 See page 3.
Perhaps you were refering to another exercise?

Jai Guru

Thanks for your observations Into Blue. i will put it into practice....

I have two of his books, and those are pretty good tips for mindful meditation. But mindfulness is not just during meditation but used at all times when we're not meditating, just trying to keep aware of our thoughts, actions and not be 'reactive' to everything. I find that it can be very difficult to not simply be reactive because of the nature of the subconscious mind. But the more we meditate, the more we can pull 'forth' whatever garbage we have stored in the subconscious self, and be made aware of it, so we can be mindful and not be 'reactive' people, but we make actions which are more thought out.

Thanks Nomaste and Lady Urania

i can imagine and see you take a break in the moment of free choice Namaste2All. It is an inspiration to me. i think that the the Buddhists have quite a contribution to this whole thing with their emphasis on awareness in all life situations. i have noticed another thing though. It is one thing to be aware and something else to do something about that awareness. i mean there are a lot of intelligent people out there that are in the same rut they have been in for years. The same grooves are being played out despite the awareness. It seems to me that meditation is the best way to start moving out of those old patterns since our consciousness starts changing and then our patterns of behavior more naturally take new paths. It also helps to have the encouragement of a Master to provide life learning inspiration.

Jitendra

Steve, I think your observations( I underlined parts of your post) are so true. It is the same with other things, (not just awareness) one thing to have knowledge of something and better yet if one puts this knowledge to use. Great connection using meditation as a way to do this changing of patterns and expanding the consciousness. And of course, things are becoming so much clearer now that I am starting to read Master's lessons. Thank you for your encouragement in that direction.

Into Blue  

I can tell you of an even easier presence meditation then the one that steve mentioned. I hope he doesn't mind. That would be paying attention to the moment you are in, and what you are doing now. Take for instance you walk down the street, and are singing do a diddy diddy dum diddy do. Pay attention to everything. Be in that moment. Notice your foot. Notice when you pick it up. Do you put it down ball first, or toes first. Notice the contact you make on the ground. Notice your hands. Do you move them? Do they go up and down? Do they stay perpendicular to your body? Notice the way your clothing moves with you. Does it affix itself to your body, does it sway in the breeze?

The more you focus on, and concentrate on what you are doing, all the way down to the finest detail the more you will notice you have no choice but to be in this moment. You will notice while you are focused on every second of now you will notice that your thoughts are not there, and you have become submerged in this moment that you don't have time for any other moment.

You can also do this while meditating. Paying attention to every part of your body, and limbs, and any sensations that may come up.

Thank you Amor for your presence meditation idea. We are happy to have you share your mediation and your thoughts with us ! I can see how this would certainly call upon one to be in " the now ".

Ok, my next question here is and forgive me anyone if you have already answered this here or elsewhere ( please guide me to your answer )
What is the purpose of being in the now, in this moment ? So many people talk about this, I was just wondering. Is it just to be ' aware ' of all that is ?

Into Blue   

I'm sure there are many many different answers to this. Some will say it's presence, some will say it's awareness. I will sum it up even easier, and I'm sure that others will say I'm wrong. I'm ok with that.


Now is all there is.. Everything else is an illusion. There is no tomorrow, there is no yesterday. Just this moment that you are at at this time of reading this post.

Well that would give oneself a nice headache. It's an illusion that I am not in the now no matter where I am, or doing what I am doing. I am never in the future, or in the past. I am and always will be now.

What is it that you feel you are having a problem understanding, or getting?

I am totally in the now when I watch Vertigo, Psycho or any of my other thrillers. You should try it for your own practice. You might be clenching your seat chairs abit. But at least you'll know you are in the now! You may think there is no future for you and you definatley won't be thinking of your past. I may even horrify  :o you. But the point is that you are in the now. Without a doubt.  :P

Your friiend Alfred

i think Alfred has a good point here. He may not even have known that he made it. That is: i don't think i would want to be totally in the now if i was in a horrible accident or had a painful tooth. When you think in terms of absolutes there are times that you can corner yourself by your own thought process.

Steve Hydonus

[/quote]

I am totally in the now when I watch Vertigo, Psycho or any of my other thrillers. You should try it for your own practice. You might be clenching your seat chairs abit. But at least you'll know you are in the now! You may think there is no future for you and you definatley won't be thinking of your past. I may even horrify  :o you. But the point is that you are in the now. Without a doubt.  :P

Your friiend Alfred


[/quote]


Does this help Into Blue? i put in bold the point i already made... JaiGuru

Quite the suggestion Alfred, without a doubt if I were watching one of your thrillers, I would for sure be on the edge of my chair !  :o and if I fell off that chair in all the suspense and terror, I would without a doubt be on the floor, in the NOW ! No questions about it !!

thanks, friend
Into Blue  

hi Amor, I don't think I am having a problem understanding " the now ", that seems quite clear. The confusion, I think is in the illusion idea, just not quite grasping that. The past and the future cannot be illusion, what happened happened, granted it has now become a memory, but fact is ... once upon a time it WAS the now. Same with the future, it WILL BE, eventually the now, we just don't know it at this moment in time, and when it does come, it will be the now.

If I recall, Yogananda also speaks of this life as being just a dream, kind of a similar concept to the illusion idea, as it is not real - we just think it is.

Ok, so if I am understanding the basic concept of the now, WHY is it so important to be in the now ?

other than to be aware of what is going on at that moment in time, and to appreciate all that there is

Into Blue  

i think Alfred has a good point here. He may not even have known that he made it. That is: i don't think i would want to be totally in the now if i was in a horrible accident or had a painful tooth. When you think in terms of absolutes there are times that you can corner yourself by your own thought process.

Steve Hydonus

Quote from Alfred:

I am totally in the now when I watch Vertigo, Psycho or any of my other thrillers. You should try it for your own practice. You might be clenching your seat chairs abit. But at least you'll know you are in the now! You may think there is no future for you and you definatley won't be thinking of your past. I may even horrify   you. But the point is that you are in the now. Without a doubt. 

Your friiend Alfred



Quote from: amorabsolutus on December 15, 2009, 07:37:03 pm
It's an illusion that I am not in the now no matter where I am, or doing what I am doing. I am never in the future, or in the past. I am and always will be now.

What is it that you feel you are having a problem understanding, or getting?



Does this help Into Blue? As you can see i recopied my post and put my point in Bold and also qouted Alfred since it seemed to be needed for you.  Jai Guru

Thank you Steve, for ALL you do - I do understand it now.

And I also thank you Amor.

No more questions  :)

Into Blue  

Let's see if I can help you understand this "now" business. For starts how can the future not be an illusion. Well it hasn't really happened so there is no future. Nor do we know how that will pain out so in thinking of the future we can create undue suffering in ourselves wondering what if's. and what could be's. What happened yesterday only happened in the now, for you were in the now when it happened. It can, and only will happen in the now. No matter how much you think that it's already happened. It only happened now.


As to your question of why should we be focused on the now. For starters focusing on the future, and yesterday creates anxiety, fear, panic, turmoil, and a whole lot of other emotions that you feel are a result of what happened in the "past" and what could happen in the "future." When you are focused on those time periods you are not concentrating on the most important time, now, and you can end up missing out on things because you are afraid of past failures, or what may happen.

Another very crucial part of the now is if you know of the power of affirmation, and manifestation. Those tools we are capable of only happen in the now. You can't create something to happen yesterday, or something that happens tomorrow. You can only create it now.

And as long as you are in the NOW you will never have the problem of never having enough time. When you are in the now you will see you have nothing but time.

Sorry to hear about you hitting another car, and them not doing anything. Sounds like they may of wanted you to hit them. Perhaps they were playing their role in you getting this message. Maybe that would be why the angels didn't warn you. Sometimes the easiest way to get us to listen to a message is with our attention. What better way to get our attention than to slam into another car.

Reminds me of a time when I let my emotions get the better of me while I was working. I was working at a District Manager who I am not fond of, because he has something against me, or what have you. Was doing what he does best and riling me up. Wondering why something was installed on the floor, and I had no clue as I did not install it. Which was true. So to shut him up I went to get cable ties to clean it up, and was really just annoyed, and angry.. I then had a fellow co worker call me, and while that was going on, and me being angry. In the heat of all that, and now being in the now. I locked me keys in my car. As I put them down, not realizing it as I was looking for something in my car.

That got my attention afterwards when I had to wait an hour for a locksmith to come and get my keys out.

Nomaste Amorabsolutus

What consolation would this philosophy have for someone that is having their leg sawed off because of gangrene who had been fighting in the Civil War?

Steve

Well I'd be impressed that they were still alive now from fighting in the civil war, and really impressed that the infection didn't spread past the leg. :P


With that said it's not really relevant to the person as to when it happened. It did happen, and there is nothing they can do to change it. Many will fall into the path of suffering if they focus on the when's and how's. From there they will fall into well if I wasn't in the civil war, if I wore those thicker socks that I decided not to wear at the last min. I wouldn't be losing this leg now.

With that said when the guy fell, or did whatever he did, he did it in the NOW. There was never a time when he wasn't doing it now. When he gets amputated he is getting amputated in the NOW.

Nomaste Amorabolutus

i'm not sure that you are understanding what i am saying. Let us put it another way there is someone dying of starvation in the now right at this second of time. There is also someone being raped now or in these few minutes i am in the now. This will be true in your 'now' when you read this post.  Is there any consolation for them in your philosophy? There awarenes of the now is extremely painful. Would they want to be fully aware of that now? Would we want them to endure that suffering awareness? Your quote was: " I am never in the future, or in the past. I am and always will be now." So these people that are feeling these painful experiences are to be aware of them and be in the now? Wouldn't that add to the suffering? Can we be responsible if we are headed down the highway at nite and some one drives across the meridian with no lights on and hits us while we are in the now? Should we then practice being in the painful now as we sit there in agony and suffering from casualities? This now could be yours or mine at anytime. If we set foot in a car we must know this. If we breath in the 'now' a terrible catastrophy can be fall us from nature itself.

This is not the Cilvil war. This is the now. Some of these people are in the now and suffering is being thrust upon them. What consolation does your philosophy hold for those that are going thru this now? Should they be in the now and experience it to the fullest?

Steve Hydonus

Greetings Steve,

What you are speaking of is a tricky question to answer as you have broke off into suffering. I understand what you are saying that if you are having something bad happen to you one should take their mind out of it, and think of a happy time, or goto their happy place. That does not change the current situation, as much as you think about being somewhere else. That doesn't change the fact that you are sitting there in a terrible opportunity.

Suffering happens when you start to live out of the now. When you start to repeat that said situation in your head, and feel that it's gonna happen again. If we focus on those thoughts every time we step out, we will stop living our lives in happiness. We will become fearful, and in some rare cases we will start to dread ever leaving our house. When you expect it to happen again, or to not be fine you will start creating suffering. Being in the bad event isn't the suffering. Reliving it is the suffering.

If one is being raped, yes it's not a pleasant experience, and I understand why one would rather not be in that moment, and be somewhere else.

But when they focus somewhere else that moment is still happening. There is nothing than can do to change that fact. What happens in that moment is up to them.

I find that several of your points are very good. Example: ' Suffering happens when you start to live out of the now. When you start to repeat that said situation in your head, and feel that it's gonna happen again.' However i would not concur that suffering results in living out of the now at all times since sometimes suffering is a result of the now. There is an interesting study it is called theodicy. Theodicy is a specific branch of theology and philosophy that attempts to justify the behaviour of God. Theodicy may also be described as an attempt to reconcile belief in God with the perceived existence of evil and suffering. You state that 'being in the bad event is not the suffering'. Tell this to someone that is being shot at this moment.

Steve Hydonus

Being shot, I would presume would be very painful. Not counting those that feel no pain. When you are thinking you are gonna die, you are not gonna make it. You are gonna bleed to death. You will never see your family again. Am I gonna goto hell? Was I good enough? Did I do everything in my life that I should of? Was I nice enough?

All that there is the suffering. If you notice in all of those thoughts those were past, and future connotations. What happened, or what will happen.

Amor i am glad you brought up this subject again. i really do not think it is a 'trick question' as you described it. i do not think that one is always thinking of the past either. Have you ever felt excruciating pain? i have and most people have. You are totally in the now and feeling that agony and you would do anything to get out of the now. i am trying to make a point here. The point is that awareness is important at times. Although at other times like when we are in the trenches; all we can do is practice the presence or think of having divine help or pray outloud. Sometimes when we are practicing the presence all the time we often have to also be aware of what we are doing as well. Therefore it seems to me that practicing the presence and mindfulness are both an integral part of my spiritual life. There is no hard and fast rule for every occasion.

Finally we are never going to get out of this perdictiment called life where we have to feel these alternating waves of sorrow and joy, happiness and sadness, pain and pleasure etc. unless we practice meditation to eventually arrise above these doaulities.
Steve Hydonus

Charmed i must have been... Sadness, frustration or a stretch of an over active imagination? In regards to what my dear?  Life is what you make it. If you make frustration and sadness out of it that is what you will experience. Of course we all have our moments that is why we are in this form as humans ascending towards spirit.

Rarely does one experience love over the internet and you can't know about meditation till you practice it. Until then how can we discuss those things we are guessing about? Some people like to talk endlessly but never make the effort to develop a friendship. Somewhat like some dragons that just blow a lot of hot air. It is tantamount to talking about honey but never eating it to experience it. The internet is a jumping board to true encounters with others. But some never get beyond typing on the threads and fear the jump.  Love and joy is here now but without meditation it is only temporary. What we see in others is in ourselves otherwise we would not recognize it in others. So why dwell on sadness and frustration?

Unworldly focus not based on reality? A worldly focus is? What is unworldly to one is reality to another. What is reality to another is simply fantasy to the enlightened.

In divine love i pray for you Charmed one... (From my thread 'The Miracle of Love') A rose by any other name is still a rose. True Love in the past the future or in the now is still love. If we have experienced it we can experience it again and someday it will be a part of our now at all times. I have experienced love. The Love of God has truly touched my heart and i felt ecstacy. Experiences like this are meant to stay with us forever. They are spiritual experiences. We ssek to make them a part of our every moment of existence.Steve Hydonus

Hiya Steve,

I wasn't ignoring your reply. I was infact soul searching for an appropriate answer to share with you. One I spoke of trick question I was referring to the concept of "suffering."

Anyways, I will speak on what you said of being in excruciating pain. Let's use going to the dentist as an example. Getting those needles in the mouth, or having a tooth ache. You say that being in the now in those circumstances are not an appropriate time to be in the now. Let's say you are in the dentist chair, or leading up to the dentist, and are in pain. You then focus on not being in pain, or focus on the the day after the dentists trip. Focus on that time you went on vacation and had the greatest time of your life. Etc..

What you are doing is shifting your focus from the pain you are in to something else. In other words you are not concentrating on the pain. You have focused somewhere else. Some will say that pain really only happens if you think about it, or focus on it. In a way it is true. It's not that it doesn't happen it's that you have shifted your focus to somewhere else.

So being in the  now is not about the pain. Unless being in the now for you would be focusing on the pain that you are in. What about the chair you are sitting on, and the light that is shining down upon you. The air that is blowing on your face.. Etc..

Yes i would agree. i think that we do have limitations on awareness in the now. At these times we can focus on other things. My approach would be to constantly practice the presence which would bring another factor into the equation. i think that mindfulness is a good practice. There are times that practicing the presence would help for me and there are times when mindfulness should be used to remedy being absorbed in practicing the presence when there are practical matters to take ccare of.....

Steve Hydonus

Interesting book, " Little Book of Zen " , I found this :

Ummon's  " Every Day is a Good Day "

" Ummon addressed the assembly and said, "I am not asking you about the days before the fifteenth of the month. But what about after the fifteenth ?
Come and give me a word about those days.
And he himself gave the answer for them. " Every day is a good day "

The days before the fifteenth of the month could be the days before today, or could be the days before you were born,
or the days before your enlightenment.
Ummon is not asking about what has happened before the present moment
" What happens after the fifteenth? " is Ummon's way of asking what happens to consciousness at this point in time and in the future.
No one could answer Ummon, so he gave the answer himself -

'when you are in samadhi, every day is a good day, you don't ask about the past, nor wonder about the future. You are here, you are now.'

One thing we can do to practice mindfulness is to talk to ourselves....reminding ourselves what we are doing each and every moment: Now i am washing dishes. i am being a good listener on the phone.  Now i am typing these words. i am doing it to serve a higher purpose; God. i am serving you Lord. i am serving you!

I talked to myself for years and ended up in the nut house. I especially like macadamias! I had a girlfriend named Macadamia. She had a hard shell to crack! Also psychic she was &€£¥₩$#!=%.could see through your windows.

I often find myself being grateful and thankful for the friends i have and praying for them. Also i often ask to be placed and be aware of the divine order around me. It is nice to have an afternoon off to think of God and practice our spiritual sadhana.

One of the most challenging parts of spiritual practices I’ve found is to be so involved with your work, what ever it may be, that you forget practicing the presence. If you get really involved with your work it is easy to forget practicing the presence of the divine who we are serving. The true purpose of our work is serving the divine.

We often forget that our service could go on more gracefully if we included the Masters in our efforts and service. We can gain skills and aptitudes that we didn’t find possible if we only open up to the divine possibilities. Sometimes it’s better to close shop and meditate rather than going on and on struggling with work. Because God can and will make up for our deficiencies.