Spiritual Portal

Lately, I've been devoting hours of research and study to the recent advancement in the nutrition science. A topic which has fascinated me is longevity. Some authoritative experts mantain that, by some practical interventions like nutrition, exercise and others, it is possible to mimic the situation of the centenaries who are born with a genetic setup which favours longevity, health and lifespan. I have started to follow such strategies, which are compatible with the science of yoga.
For those who are interested, the starting point are two incredibly instructive videos. I am amazed that we have now access to such invaluable material. The government may be owned by oligarchies but sheer knowledge now is in the hands of everyone.

I highly suggest, even if by installments, to view Dr. Attia's video first. If anyone is interested, I can post a very brief summary of the very simple, practical strategies to  follow to increase our lifespan.

As far as I could see, the very best info on longevity and health can be accessed in the U tube video I'm going to link here. The video is longish, but invaluable. This is so far the best concentrate of practical strategies for longevity I ever saw. Dr. Attia's credentials are absolutely solid to say the least. He's considered a reinassance man, with a degree in mechanical engineering and one in medicine, plus he's an expert in a host of medical camps like surgery, health diseas, lipidology, endocrinology, nutrition, athletic performance. The fact that everyone has free access to such info today is a testament to the undisputable evolution of civilization, as far as sharing of knowledge goes. We are in Dwapara and knowledge is no more the realm of a few academical lords. This is a vid I highly suggest to those who are over 40 years of age.
Pls note that Dr. Attia's strategy is based upon 8 fields of intervention. Among these, stress management is implemented by meditation. And Life purpose and social support is implemented by keeping active and helping others. We should not lack of a purpose in life, which is our spiritual evolution. Social support should come automatically as an expression of our common relationship with other souls.

https://youtu.be/AImlHYal3cI

Another suggested video, after the one with Dr. Attia, a shorter one and extremely interesting, on the ancestral body sensor of nutrients, the mammalian target of rapamycine, or mTOR.
The message here is clear: eat less proteins, live longer. As simple as that. mTOR is a genetic sensor which is activated by an abundance of proteins. This in ancestral times was the signal to grow and reproduce. Growth, after youth, is at the expense of manteinance & repair. Apparently, the body cannot grow and significantly repair at the same time. Growth, past the age of youth and barring exceptional circumstances like pregnancy, recovery and so on,  is also a mode which favours cancer cells growth and degenerative disease = premature death.
Again, I'm astounded that such doctors give out freely their time to the dissemination fo such priceless knowledge.

Dr. Ron Rosedale - 'The Early Ancestral Connection Between Protein, Cancer, Aging and TOR'

https://youtu.be/Yv-M-5-s9B0

If you guys are interested we can speak about the very practical interventions to attempt the way of longevity and prevention from cancer and degenerative disease, proposed by the cited doctors.

It's all interesting stuff, Mccoy. I can say that I am certainly not ready to go and seem to be very much attached to the body. But I did want to give a counterpoint to think about regarding this topic. It comes fro Sri Ramana.


Sorry to interrupt. Let the discussion ensue.

hi mccoy,

im almost finished with the first video but am intruiged by the "simple" rules which aren't always so simple.

i think the parts that ring for me are managing stress, managing sleep and meditating.

i used to research transcendental meditation it makes sense with everything he's looking into.

i've slowly been going back to being vegetarian. i think though, most important, is also maintaining activity. my job has me sitting in front of a computer for 9 to 10 hours a day and then i go home and sit on a couch to "unwind"

lol

It is nice to see u r enthusiastic about something and want to share it with us mccoy. i see no reason for not sharing it with us if u would like. It looks like we are taking an interest! i want to mention this; i have spent considerable amount of years in academia and am not impressed by credentials like Masters' Doctorates etc. i honestly have seen some extremely ignorant unbalanced and prejudiced people having degrees and captalizing off them. Credentials and degrees can give knowledge but may not give understanding and often suffocate wisdom. Even though they may have solid credentails does not give them the added quality of being 'solid people' u would want in your life. i would be more inclined to listen to a friend then many many professionals or especially listen to a an advanced yogi or shaman.

The shamanic journey can often put the puzzle of the fragmented picture of one life into the context of a whole picture of the souls evolution and the difficulties it may have intentionally decided to work out this life. While others seem to have a smoother life living longer and healthy, they may not have chosen a spiritually victorious life but rather are satisfying various desires to increase the length of their life, the health of their life or finding the right mate for their life. These are only a few examples to be sure. With that in mind thanks for the offer we can learn from.; should you have or make time to post here it is always welcome! i hope to also find time to see what treasure u may have found.

mccoy your latest thread has inspired me to go back to srf lessons 81 thru 83 which are devoted to health. I must confess that i have not felt an overwhelming desire to read these specifc lessons since my health thru the years has been quite good and when it was not i recieved a miraculous healing from Paramahansa Yoganada. However like everthing else in this life the circumstances and with it my health has changed.

Although driving a truck seemed like a good way of making a living i have had to take a break from it because it seems to have contributed to health issues that have a genetic basis and environmental exposure as well. It is also very difficult to eat the proper nutritional food while 'on the road'.  While driving a semi you can only stop at certain areas to park where parking lots will accomodate such large vehicles. At these places you are forced to eat what corporate America offers at McDonalds, Burger King, Arbies,Subway and Dairy Queen etc. Perhaps i will drive again but for now it is more important to heal and address service related issues that are more suitable to changing circumstances.

Mccoy

We have been told as vegetarians all our lives that we do not get enough protein and here is a guy that is telling us the opposite for longevity. i doubt that we have to be too concerned about too much protein however maybe we do not have to think about getting suplements and maybe the standard daily needs of protein are not correct (about 50 grams a day) What do you think? I have a close friend who continously recomends i get 60 grsms a day to help in recovery and fighting di-sease. It seems like what this man is saying favors our diet and a vegan diet since it has even less protein. However he never mentioned either.

Today i fasted again; a practice which i have done all my life up till recently because of a heavey schedule driving a truck. Yogananda recommends fasting at least one day a week or 3 days a month. Usually on water or fruit juice. i believe this falls easily into the longevity program. A vegan diet would fit stronger into a low protein diet.

In the States we are inundated with with protein advertisements and the meat and poultry business.  At  one time we were told by most people that a vegetarian diet was very unbalanced so i had to trust my guru and intuition. It appears that a vegetarian diet also has dairy products full of protein. i find my self cutting back on dairy products as well...
 no more milk now....soy products and drinks instead and much more fruit juice. Very little cottage cheese and cheese only in an occasional omlet which i have also found less intetest in. i still like mexican food and it is just not the same without some cheese but i have also cut back on the amount. i wonder about yogurt and kefir since they have such good bacteria in them which is good for your stomach; lacto bacilius culture.

i wonder if i lived in California again if i would get back to a basically vegan diet. It is a bit difficult in Michigan where most fruits and fresh vegetables do not grow for most of the year so food prices for fresh foods are prohibitive except for the wealthy.

Perhaps there is more need for protein when recovering from illness..  At least that is what a close friend is trying to convince me of and i am so confused by what the experts on nutrition say i do not know what to believe. You can find any view you want to fit yours on the internet if that is your intention.

Steve, I'm collecting info from recent research, I'll be back here soon to post more. There is fascinating materia.

Yes, when recovering there si a greater need for proteins, unless you are in particular conditions

Sorry guys, I've not logged in frequently but the recent news in nutrition has revived powerfully my old interests in this field.

First of all, I'd like to reassure Pete that those guys I linked are not just doctors with excellent credentials. they are guys who reasoned against the common beliefs of medicine and experimented their beliefs on their own bodies and on many patients. They are guys who have deep intuition in the topic they speak about and are willing to share those extraordinary insights. I do not believe they are necessarily correct 100%, since individual variability is huge. Dr Attia recognizes that though. He has been an endurance athlete, he graduated in mechanical engineering then in medicine, he has a deep intuitive knowledge in many fields of practical medicine. He is a redoubtable figure. Those guys are indeed bright minds who are disseminating some fascinating aspects of the workings of the human body which were unknown so far to the greater public. I am utterly fascinated by these metabolic pathways, which are sure governed by astral intelligences, They are sort of master switches of the animal kingdom, common to yeasts, invertebrates, mammalians.
Such master switches posses an inherent deep significance in relation to survival of the species. They are intelligent biological procedures which optimize the animal existence and keep the body in repair when there is little or no food, while boosting it into growth and proliferation when there is abundant food.
The astral powers which govern such complex metabolic pathways are semi-conscious. Their work is similar to automatons, they just do what they are meant to do.

I went thru Dr. Rosedale's presentation at least 3 times. It took that to understand fully the implications of his reasonings.

mTOR, or the mammalian Target Of Rapamycine (AKA the mechanistic Target Of Rapamycine) is an ON-OFF biological switch.

mTOR is an organic sensor which senses an abundance of dietary proteins, more exactly of free amino acids and particularly leucine, which is common in many foods.

This is an ancestral mechanism. When food was scarce, mTOR was inhibited, switched OFF. Body in repair and manteinance mode. Since the time was not favourable to growth and reproduction, mTOR OFF told the body to cleanse itself, practice autofagy eliminating the damaged cells, regenerating the immune system and many otehr processes.

When the food was abundant though and provided an abundance of the building block of growth: proteins, mTOR went ON.
It told the body to grow and reproduce. It triggered a cascade of anabolic mechanisms. Pregnancy, growth, lactation. It told animals and people to assure the survival of the species. It still tells that. We are inheriting this ancestral mechanism.

After reproduction has been carried out, the spawn able to live on their own, we have grown older. We are disposable to the inexorable evolutionary process.
mTOR is still an alive sensor, but now there is no more much advantage in growing, except when we want to grow muscle mass after an illness, or during periods of hard physical labour.

When we are past our reproductive age, surely when we are over 40, mTOR in the ON mode is something we want to avoid.

We want to avoid that since with mTOR ON useless growth is spurred. Cancer cells can proliferate. Repair and manteinance is subordinate, damaged cells are not efficiently disposed of, the immune system cannot regenerate. In this ON mode the probability of occurrence of many illnesses is higher: cancer, degenerative diseases like cardio-vascular and cerebro-vascular disease, alzheimer, Parkinson. The ON mode brings about illness, the OFF mode brings about longevity. Statistically speaking of course, since we cannot avoid karma, although we can minimize it.

Bottom line is that we can downregulate this powerful master switch simply by regulating our own diet and not eating an abundance of proteins. This is a new school of thought which descends from the experiments on caloric restriction.

Now, what's abundance and what is not nobody knows exactly. Dr Rosedale suggests to stick to the 0.75 grams of proteins per kilogram ideal weight per day. He says sticking to 0.6 is best.

I've gone deeper that that, given my geeky nature, and in that I'm similar to Dr. Attia.

Sticking to our minimum proteic requirement would assure us not to starve, at the same time ensuring an OFF mTOR switch.

More on the optimum proteic requirement later.

Here I'll just say that there are other important biological master switches which govern longevity, the IGF-1 switch and the Insuline switch.

IGF-1 (Insuline-like growth factor 1) is also sensitive to dietary proteins. We want it in an OFF mode by eating fewer amino acids, especially methionine.

Low quantities of IGF-1 boost regeneration and rejuvenation of the body. hi quantities of IGF-1 (ON mode) boost cellular growth and anabolism. Bad things in old geezers.

Insuline is a blood sugar sensor. We want to avoid too large an amount of blood insuline and big peaks in its release. Insuline also feels proteins, and has an anabolic function.

To keep the insuline switch in an OFF mode we want to eat moderate amounts of sugars and starches and moderate amount of proteins.

We have seen that just by moderating the amount of proteins we ingest we can downregulate to our advantage 3 fundamental biological mechanisms which favour growth but decrease longevity.

How ya'all hereabouts been? I'm just goinna cut through the shit and get to the point. I mean to tell you I don't know if our cray fish up the creek our full of protein or plaster but I've been living on them and hickory nuts since Old Hikory defended the south. I mean to tell you my skin is tougher then leather and seeins to how I look now I am goina outlive ya'all but I can'ta tell you if I'm a offshoot of one of those Tortoises ya'all see live 300 years or not. You just come over to grandma Landcaster's place and I will open up a an old cask and ya'll will have Beadies best that will let ya'all out live the aligators in the pond. As long as ya'all don't mind lookin' and behavin' like one. Smoke a little corn husk and drink a little of my cell tonic and ya got a long life ahead of ya young whippersnappers.

                                                                Beatrice Landcaster

Of course, Beatrice, it is a recognized fact that most centenarians have a genetic setup which is itself conducive to longevity. The people affected by the Leron syndrome in south America have a genetic deficiency in IGF-1, this does not let them grow much but lets them live longer, with no degenerative disease.

What we common mortals can hope to do by actuating the biological master switches is to mimic the metabolic setup of them centenaries like yourself, congratulations for the good karma!

Excess of proteins, besides triggering mTOR and IGF-1 + insulin, can cause other adverse effects.

Excessive uric acid concentration, with joint and gout problems
Kidney problems in those who are genetically sensitive

Consumption of meat proteins besides entails greater consumption of heme iron, which can be pretty damaging in large quantities

Last, consumption of an excess of animal proteins can be related to consumption of an excess of saturated fats, which depending on individuals (again there is a huge variation), can be bad.

One caveat: after 65, according to the studies of the biogerontologist Valter longo, the body would need more proteins.
According to dr Rosedale this happens only in those who do not eat low carb, which are the majority of people.

With mirth and laughter let wrinkles come.

                         Willie the Shake

The 8 drivers of longer and enhanced life According to Dr Peter Attia, MD

1.   Diet
a.   inhibit mTor signaling
b.   IGF lower
i.   Less Methionine
ii.   Less insuline
c.   AMPK more active
d.   RAS less active
•   Efficient glucose disposal at the lowest level of insuline possible
•   No hyperinsulinemia.
o   Minimize mean glicaemia
o   Minimize glicemic variability
o   Minimize AUC of insuline
→ Lowest proteins necessary to mantain efficiently muscle mass

•   Low IGF levels = good in the muscles and organs system
•   High IGF levels = good in the central system, cognitive area.

2.   Exercise
•   Build as much muscle mass as possible
•   Activate type IIB fibers

3.   Manage stress (cortisol causes high BS) : meditation
4.   Manage sleep
a.   7.5 or 8 hours per night
b.   Avoid blue light after sunset (f.lux app)
c.   Various substances
5.   Hormone replacement therapy (HRT)
6.   Drugs and supplements= 28 drugs according to individuals
a.   Metformin
7.   Social purpose
a.   Working beyond retirement increases cognitive functionality
b.   Help other people
8.   Avoid harmful behaviours
a.   Smoking
b.   Automotive accidents, texting while driving
i.   Don’t drive with alcohol in blood

The above suggestions on diet get down to:

1- Optimize (minimize according to individual strict needs and tolerance) carbs consumption
2- Optimize (minimize according to individual strict needs) proteins consumption

Pls. note, optimum protein intake for longevity and diseases prevention is pretty low, often less than the RDI of 0.8 gr of proteins per kg ideal bodyweight per day. Dr. rosedale says between 0.6 and 0.75.
Dr. Attia makes the most correct point to fine-tune intake according to individual needs, which is not easy.

Bottom line: the lesser carbohydrates and proteins we eat without starving ourselves, the longer we are probably going to live diseaseless.

FASTING has always been a favourite procedure of bodily and spiritual cleansing in Yoga, and in many religions. Now it has been proven that to the cleansing effect a real rejuvenating effect is achieved, by massive regeneration of the hematopoietic system.

Prolonged Fasting Reduces IGF-1/PKA
to Promote Hematopoietic-Stem-Cell-Based
Regeneration and Reverse Immunosuppression

http://www.cell.com/cell-stem-cell/p...909(14)00151-9

Now, the above reccomendations would seem pretty clear. I've made a dietary experiment on myself to test the 'eat less carbs + eat less proteins' points, or rather to optimize the quantitiy of carbs and proteins.

I just cut all natural sweets (honey, dried fruit, bananas) eating just fresh fruit, no more than one pound per day. I also cut all cereals, bread and so on.
I count all proteins and make sure not to eat too many of'em.

The result has been interesting but undesired to me, since I lost at least 5 pounds, starting from leanness. I do not wish to loose weight, rahter I'd like to increase some muscle mass. It was mainly water and fat but maybe a little muscle mass.
So I have to devise another strategy, maybe cutting animal proteins and resuming some bread.

A very interesting aspect which I noticed though is that I broke my former dependency on the sweet taste, even though I ate mainly natural sweets. I was a huge eater of honey, putting it in all hot beverages and sometimes on bread and butter. I also ate raisins together with almonds. Now a tiny amount of honey (I say almost microscopic) seems sweet to me, so the taste for sweetness has sharpened.

Mccoy you are fortunate you are able to afford such a diet. Do you realize what a diet of fresh fruits would cost in Michigan for most months of the year? All those fruits are shipped from thousands of miles away. At any rate this is by no means a topic that has been exhausted. i just think that the practicality of its implementation and how it fits each individual may be important as you have mentioned yourself. It may be difficult to put a square peg in a round hole.

Mccoy you are fortunate you are able to afford such a diet. Do you realize what a diet of fresh fruits would cost in Michigan for most months of the year? All those fruits are shipped from thousands of miles away. At any rate this is by no means a topic that has been exhausted. i just think that the practicality of its implementation and how it fits each individual may be important as you have mentioned yourself. It may be difficult to put a square peg in a round hole.

All i can think is you must be sittin back laughing with the ocean nearby having luscious grapes handed to you on a plate.  We only have fresh fruit and vegetables at tops 3 months out of the year. Must be nice! As you grow younger send us a post card from time to time. Greetings to your wrinkly withered friends!

There are conditions that lead to a lack of carbohydrates. For instance a lack of fiber (provided in whole wheat bread and flax seed) in diet which can lead to pancrea and liver problems and diebetes. There are also carbohydrates that are recommended. For instance Paramahansa Yogananda said that maple syrup stimulated brain activity.

http://www.naturalhealth365.com/whey-protein.html/

http://healthyeating.sfgate.com/increase-protein-diets-elderly-2557.html

Should we consider these studies obsolete?

Steve, thanks for reminding me not to take for granted the abundance of wholesome fresh fruit we enjoy in Italy. Actually, our present issue is distribution. Sometimes fruit is not so fresh and comes from north Africa or from other faraway parts of the world.

I've been lucky in that I found a Sicilian guy in my area who provides mostly fresh produce he directly grows or selects from his region. Sicily is far south and has an ideal climate for fruit and many vegetables. I ate some oranges and tangerines which were of such an exquisite and sattvic taste that after you eat them youthink you can die satisfied.
Some currents of dietary thoughts now in America affirm that fruit contains too much fructose which is heavy on liver metabolism. It is also rich in simple carbs, which are allegedly bad for blood sugar. Well, I'm an an experimenter at hearth, so I cut my fruit intake and even measured my fasting blood sugar and after a fruit +yogurt meal. The variation in blood sugar content was minimal. I tried that twice. That means that in people who are tolerant to carbs, like myself, fruit causes no significant peaks in blood sugar. Some other people who tend to obesity may have a metabolic syndrome, also called insuline resistance. If they wish to loose weight, many of them must relinquish fruit together with all carbs but the few contained in vegetables. At least until their balance is reestabilished (it may take years).
Apparently, it all depends on our individual variations. This is from the site of my Sicilian friend:

(https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/12798973_1079214278796424_3089853215616625843_n.jpg?oh=c9a74e4f37d3069d0fce8f6e562b700d&oe=58A94B10)

(https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13892297_1191457507572100_657767153354566769_n.jpg?oh=01580701a9f3d965f95f89afcf0a964f&oe=58693858)

(https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12928393_1105945696123282_1264644549024333192_n.jpg?oh=e59fff700aa122659a3d5c372d2d2273&oe=587E67E9)

I just thought that in America the distribution system was such to grant affordable fresh fruit everywhere. That's another myth about America which crumbles down.

I'd be happier if I might share with you such natural delicacies. Also, we must always remember that the mind gives for granted what is given in abundance.ùù

Also, I do not think that fruitarianism can rejuvenate you. Many fruitarians, like Gandhi, got ill. A balance is alway needed. Pure fruit is the best choice only when we'll be able to take advantage of the pranic energy.

Wow it looks great! Sometimes i could get fruit in California almost all year long abd i lived on it and Mexican Restauarants which always had loads of salsa with tomatoes celentro and onions but nothing like i see in the picture. The farmers always complained about drought and a lack of water for their fruits and vegetables. Here in Michigan we only have a 3 month growing season at the time you can live on fresh frruits and vegetables but at times like this in late September we have to rely on an occasional sale or canned fruits. You are truly fortunate!

As far as I've understood from my recent studies, whey protein upregulates insuline with its anabolic effect. This is probably due to its high content in methionine, which also stimulates the strong growth factor IGF-1,  or Insulin-like growth factor 1. These two guys are called the IIS (insuline+IGF-1 Signal).
the IIS is oen of those biological master switches which triggers growth + proliferation. Growth + proliferation means a mroe favourable environment for the reproduction of cancer cells.

Besides, whey proteins are also rich in leucine, and aminoacid which triggers mTOR, another master switch which if activated may promote cancer proliferation.

Last but not least, even if coming from grass fed cattle, whey powder is not fresh whey, it has been processed in some manner.

I do not know about the statements in the article. My info would suggest that taking whey proteins is a very bad idea for cancer prevention and prevention of degenerative diseases.

In one of his recent articles on 'Cell metabolism' Prof Longo and his team have observed that, after age 65, the body does need more proteins. So his suggestion is not to moderate proteins too much (without going to the opposite direction though). I think he suggests 1 grams /kg ideal weight/day of proteins. More than that, you may be triggering mTOR and the IIS which you do not want.

However, he does suggest a fast mimicking diet (FMD) in between his longevity diet (which is vegan based + fish twice ir thrice a week). His FMD is an700 to  800 calories daily regimen (vegan, mainly vegetables) extended throughout 4 or 5 days. It has been proven to regenerate the immune system and is believed to make up a natural shield for healthy cells while chemiotherapy hits the cancer cells (experiments on rats plus clinical trials on men).
That's a very interesting longevity diet + regimen which I'm going to study and modify accordinbg to my needs.

I'm definitely going to start a FMD, the fact that it can cause a rejuvenation of the immune system by hemopoietic stem cells regeneration is incredible. The biological effects are similar to an only water fast, according to prof. Longo, an authority on longevity who presently is 47 but just looks younger.

https://youtu.be/RjABM8UmBzI

I have Valter Longo's book, which as far as I know has not been published in the English language yet.
I'm going to post a few significant references on his longevity diet and FMD. He has done every manners of studies from the diet of populations with many centenaries to the factors which trigger mTOR and ISS. In the following pic he's portrayed together with a woman affected by Laron's syndrome in Ecuador. These people have a genetic lack of IGF-1, so they do not grow and remain dwarfs. However, lack of the IFG-1 signal makes them pretty immune to degenerative diseases and they live very long (although some commit suicide).


(http://michelsonmedical.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/valter-longo-5427-featured-img1-700x300.jpg)

An interesting interview with Longo focusing on his FMD, which is a form of intermittent fasting:

http://michelsonmedical.org/2014/12/26/igf-1-fasting-discussion-valter-longo/

It seems like every area of Gods creation is like a universe in itself replete with many approaches and many views. Many of them seem to contradict conventional views including my own on being a vegetarian early in life. i do not think anyone wants to take your passion away from you mccoy on this subject of longevity and some of your interests rub off so you find me here. i will say this though... i do believe i will live forever....not always in this body but it may be some place more suited for me so longevity for me is mostly about the souls conscious awareness as it moves from one ecasement to another and finally frees itself of all encasements. The whole idea of longevity then becoming obsolete as part of time and space.

Steve, of course present longevity is risible compared to other longevities, my point is that if we can increase our healthspan, which is our healthy lifespan,  we might have a probability by following certain guidelines.

Longevity in the sense of living up to 120 years has not much meaning, since after 100 there is usually not much strenght in the body nor in the mind. Definitely there is not after 110. Let's say that, presently, reaching a centenary age does not seem to bring about particular advantages.
Whereas, lowering the probability of degenerative disease until a certain age, may seem desirable.

i support u in your efforts mccoy and read your material!

"All the proper food materials can be classified under the following : minerals, vitamins, carbohydrates, proteins, fats.

Individuals differ in their needs as regards. and proportion of these classes of foods. Occupational activity is one factor. The need of strengthening certain faculties and organs and body parts is another consideration. So it takes study of foods and study of your needs, in order to select your food properly."

~ Paramahansa Yogananda

Great quote from the unsurpassable practical wisdom of Yogananda. It might have been written by one of today's nutrition experts. The most enlightened ones.

Vitamins and minerals are called today micronutrients, whereas carbs, proteins and fats are called macronutrients. Much of the study of present day nutrition is about optimization of macronutrients ratios. There are also different shcools of thought, the low-carbers hi-proteins (atkins), the low-carbers, modearte proteins, hi fat (the most recent, Rosedale, Fung, Attia), the high carbs-low fat (Ornish, Esseltsyn). Which one is right is not easy to decide, since literature sources do not agree at all (aside from Atkins which is too high in proteins to be heatlhy). Also, unfortunately, economic powers do influence researchers by funding them and having them publish what the food companies wish.

The fact that individual needs differ is another fundamental issue which not everyone understands completely. Fanatism abounds, so many people are convinced that the diet they follow must necessarily be good for everyone else.

The truth is that, within the basic health rules of nutrition (do not eat too much, do not eat junk food, balance nutrients, do not eat much meat or animal foods) , we should really understand our needs in the context of our occupation and targets.

Good info here mccoy u seem to be more informed and take quite an interest in health and nutrition. I wondered about the Atkins products. They are abundant on the shelves in cloneland. Having a pazaaz for reading labels i was surprised to find out for their high price they really do not have so many nutrients in them. It is amazing to me how some people convince themselves they need meat for protein. However at this point in my life i let others believe as they wish i have to take care of my bod.

Steve, the Atkins products stem from the Atkins diet, which is a low carbs-high protein diet.
So they are invariably low-carb, sometimes they are like cereals with declared lower glycaemic index.

It's one of the various businesses related to a specific diet. I wouldn't buy them. Most low carbers prefer to buy and cook natural food.

Mccoy I know you are interested in the practice of gazing into the third eye and longevity. I found this quote in the srf  lessons;

If one constantly keeps his mind concentrated upon the point between the eyebrows (at the Christ conscious center) and sees there the spiritual eye and commands it to recharge the body with strength, it will do so. If this were practiced, we would cease to grow old.

Forgive me if this seems disrespectful to Yogananda, but one can't help noticing that he died quite a young man and no SRFers that I am aware of have lifespans which deviated significantly from average. One wonders why he would teach such a thing when he either didn't practice it himself or he did practice it and it didn't work exactly as expected. Or maybe I am misconstruing his words to mean "never dying" when instead he is talking about some other aspect of the physical aging process. His exact words quoted here are cease to grow old. In any case, it is quite a claim for which there doesn't seem to be an overwhelming amount of evidence.

Again, please, forgive me for casting doubt on your guru's advice. I just...I mean what's the point of a forum if we can't discuss honestly?

I'll admit I never got the spiritual eye stuff. All I ever got from it was a headache. That doesn't mean it's not got some reality, of course.

What makes you think that there is anything wrong with dying young? Some of us need to be other places. This is not the only place. Thank God for that! I left Michigan to live in Southern California when I was 23 years old. People wondered why did he leave? These kind of questions have there basis in those who do not like being uprooted. Others see moving on as an opportunity...when it is needed.

I had a good reason. If I leave here soon God will have a better place for my spiritual growth. I am sure that when Paramahansa Yoganandas work was done here he was needed somewhere else. By the way Babaji has never died! So who should we use as an example? Sri Yukteswar is also my guru...he died at 80.

dingdong, your objection is sensible.
In the case of masters, though, their lifespan is not something we can judge upon. When they are finished with their earthly mission, as Steve wrote, they are recalled elsewhere and must die of some cause, unless like Elijah they are spectacularly drawn to the elestial heights in a chariot of fire. That latter happens so rarely.

If you are speaking of disciples, then that is different. But, do we have a large enough sample, with a control from general population, by which we can draw our conclusions? Besides, we cannot take from granted that all SRF disciples follow a longevity-prone diet and lifestyle. Some of them may even be tired of this life and desire another opportunity elsewhere, like Steve was implying.

The longevity issue is probabilistic. Such strategies tend to decrease the cause of death, but there is karma ambushing beyond the corner. Rajasi Janakananda followed an extremely healthful diet and lifestyle but he died of brain cancer at 61. Was his lifestyle useless? No, since it might have saved him from a more premature death. Was his lifestyle good to enjoy health before his illness? Yes.

Present day scientifical studies on longevity are based upon many methods, including the study of yeasts, mice and rodents, monkeys and groups of humans. They also studied the diets in particular areas where centenarians abound (The Okinawans, the adventists in Palo Alto, the Sardinians in Italy, and more).

They are dissecting the issue, nutrition wise, exercise wise, treatment wise, attitude wise and behaviour wise.

The evidences are published and subject to criticism.

The Yogic methods of stopping cell degeneration and achieving limitless longevity are actually out of our reach. Very, very few are able to practice them effectively and successfully. If we are able to stop our heartbeat then we can spend time in a state of suspended state with no degeneration. That would lenghten one's lifespan.

Usually, practitioners of yoga are helath conscious, vegetarians or vegans, with a purpose in life and a tendency to mitigate stressful conditions, possibly they think twice before making something stupid like drinking booze before driving or texting while driving.
These are factors which will tend to increase longevity in probabilistic terms.

Steve, unfortunately it's better said than done. Like reaching samadhi.

This morning I had come back to make my comment a little less "skittish" but Steve you were quick on the draw. I realized that I was apologizing for critical thinking, and that rubbed me very much the wrong way. What is that about?

Gotta run for now...

My 'critcal thinking' may be more critical then yours. 😀
I believe that's what it amounts to. You and I are like looking in a mirror both of us make statements that can be taken more then one way; therein lies the truth and the risk. Life is not so simple as people make it out to be. But often people seek out simple explanations for complex challenges. I am o.k. with the fact that I will not always understand one such as yourself. Our very differences make life interesting and gives us something to learn from!

J.

I don't really know what you mean by your thinking is more critical than mine. But I don't actually accept the idea that "enlightened" beings reincarnate anywhere.

On another note...I am on Starbucks wifi at the moment. There is a kid and his mother who is getting a sermon from someone that sounds very much like a preacher or minister of some kind. He is brow beating the poor kid about respect, a word he has said possibly about 30 times now and counting. He read something from ephesians, blah blah blah. His tone is getting ever more shrill by the minute.  :o

lmao

poor kid.



 

   

People like this man I am listening to are nothing but abusers.... :-\

In a way, this whole conversation that I am unfortunate enough to be overhearing at this moment basically answers my question from a few posts back.

 ::)

He is preaching a sermon to the kid chock full of submission to authority.

Call him a...submissionary.

Maybe this'll block it out...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWXPiQhjteY

Hi Brock I continued our conversation under 'satsang' near the bottom of the forum as a part of 'Freedom to Express' ; since we are venturing in a different area.

Sounds good.

Speaking of life span Paramahansa Yogananda commented;

"Virtue, also may win the soul an early release."  Paramahansa Yogananda

As you may know Paramahansa Yogananda did not want to come to the United States nor did he want to start up a spiritual organization in the states. He wanted to be a Himalayan yogi. He called organizations 'nothing but a hornets nest of troubles.'  It was ordained by Babaji and Sri Yukteswar reminded Paramahansa Yogananda of his mission when he resisted it. It seems to me he got the early release he wanted from all the humanly overwhelming responsibilities he had. Not everyone is looking for a long stay here in this school house for spiritual retards called earth.

Steve, where did you draw the following quote? I realize there is maybe a missing part. Is it possible to complete it? I believe that is one of the more coincisely enlightening truths expressed on nutrition.
Underlined, as regards.....and proportion. Maybe 'quantity and proportions'?

When I get home I will have to look. The quote was from the lessons. It looks like there was a mistake made..... spent time with friends out of town this week end.

Namaste dear friend. The quotes is from the lesson reviews and for lesson 83.

" Individuals differ in their needs as regards amount and proportion of these classes of foods. Occupational activities is one factor. The need of strengthening certain faculties and organs and body parts is another consideration. So it takes study of foods and study of your needs, in order to select your  food properly." P.Y.

Mccoy I will put a longer version under the srf lessons no. 83. (For members of spiritualportal only.)

Thanks Steve, the great Yogananda was definitely endowed with superior intuitive wisdom.

Today science is giving positive evidence of the possibility of manipulating our diets to achieve longevity, health, to loose weight or to gain weight, to gain muscles or to increase cognition, by making out the single metabolic and genetic factors which govern such faculties and organs.

Now science is dealing with concepts like negligible senbsecence and biological immortality. Some animals and organisms seem not to age or seem to enjoy immortality (they only die from illness or accidents). The lobster, the rockfish, the hydra.

I find the anti-aging and longevity issue is pretty much hot these days. In the Science Fiction books I read once in a while, a common feature of the future society is rejuvenation treatments, usually practiced at regular intervals.

Now these concepts are becoming real. Societies have been founded which are researching the methods to slow down cellular senescence. What they describe is just what I read in science fiction books. Are they going to be able and how long shall it take? the incredible thing to me is that they are presently engaging in serious endeavours to reach bodily immortality (or very long lifespan).

Then basically it's just a simple matter of switching ourselves into lobster-like or stonefish-like cellular metabolism.

http://www.sens.org/about

A chance to reach liberation in one (loooong) lifetime?

The lobster purple people eaters?

Are you still with us Methuselah?

Steve, I was wondering if metuselah is myself or some other forum members, I'm answering anyway.

One interesting link to Yoga is the concentrated diet cited in the Bagavad Gita which Yogananda hints at briefly. I'm trying to find it in his Gita commentary but unfortunately I cant. I have an hunch that such a diet is similar to Dr. Rosedale's low-carb, low protein, hi fat diet.