Print Page - Being a Vegetarian

Getting your requirements for zinc as vegetarians.

I have been a vegetarian almost all my life accept the very early years. At different times i have taken an interest in zinc. Once i read the very high risks males have for prostrate cancer. I also read that zinc helped as a precaution against cancer. So took zinc tablets for a while. Today I drank a 32 ounce bottle of Bolthouse Farms Chocolate protein plus. I got more zinc then I needed. The drink also satisfied many other requirements including over 8× my need for vitamin B12.

Vegetarians can meet the recommended dietary allowance of 8 milligrams per day for women and 11 milligrams per day for men by eating a variety of beans, grains, dairy products, nuts and seeds. However, the zinc from plant-based foods isn't as well absorbed as that from animal foods, so vegetarians may need to consume up to 50 percent more zinc to meet their needs, according to the Office of Dietary Supplements.

Steve, as I've written in other posts, I also eat little now and am wondering if I take in enough minerals.
I'm not willing to eat more since that would sure make me sick more than lower amounts than suggested of minerals and vitamins.

There are some factor though which seems to make unlikely a deficiency:

1-Homeostasis: we optimize the absorption of nutrients in such a way to avoid too small and too high quantities.
2-whole grain foods: in spite of fitates, it has been observed that they result in more zinc and iron absorbed
3-Vitamin c, fruit, vegetables: these foods, as it has been observed, improve the absorption of iron, zinc and other nutrient

Quote from: Steve Hydonus on May 06, 2015 06:51 am

Perhaps one of the reasons is that I need less and less food so it seems i should be aware of what that small amount of food is.

Exactly my same concern

anyway, I think the B12 concern is soon solved in a natural way, as I've written in the thread on B12 (except for vegans, who most probably need supplements).

I'm a little more concerned about iron and zinc, but I'm researching that. The best vegetarian source for iron are probably lentils. I can eat only very modest amounts of them though. Other sources are some nuts and seeds. Bitter chocolate and unsweetend cocoa are good sources for iron, zinc, magnesium and other metals, and almonds are very rich in Mg and walnuts are rich in Zn.

Proteins after a certain age are needed in small amounts, probably one half or one quarter of the FDA RDI, depending on physical activity. I'm going to research that as well.

Homeostastis and Zinc: I'm researching some literature on the subject. A reference article, often cited, is Johnson et al., 1993.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/57/4/557.long

This is a very interesting article on the homeostasis of zinc and the treshold below which homeostasis fails and deficiency comes about.

Some concentration units in the article are micro-moles/day, which multiplied by 65.38, the atomic mass of zinc, results in micrograms per day (and this multiplied by 0.001 is milligram/d), the usual unit. OK, I'm reading values are often converted.
The authors start with these data (current RDI = 11 mg/d):

FDA RDI in 1993 = 15 mg/d
'Adequate amount'= 10.3 mg/d
low amount= 4.4 mg/d
pretty low amount= 2.45 mg/d
very low amount=1.4 mg/d

The result is that almost all of the subject started to manifest zinc deficinecy at the pretty low or low tresholds.
Everyone was all right with 4.4 mg/day, which is about less than an half times the current RDI of 11 mg/day.

It must be told that the Zn supplied in teh study was highly available. In such case, conclusions of the rticle is that 3.4 mg /d is an adequate amount.

For us vegetarians it may not be so, although I would tend to believe that 5 mg/d would be in most cases (adult.males-average bodyweight) an adequate quantity.

Iron and homeostasis: a good and very exaustivearticle on the biochemistry of iron:

http://physrev.physiology.org/content/93/4/1721

Quote

Despite fluctuations in the iron content of human diets and occasional blood loss from trauma or child birth, most adult humans maintain plasma iron concentrations in the range of 10–30 μM and iron reserves of ∼0.2–1 g (46). Moreover, iron absorption is increased in mice or humans during periods of iron deficiency, and absorption is decreased by parenteral iron overload (reviewed in Ref. 72). These observations have led to the expectation that one or more systemically acting hormones regulate the major flows of iron and are in turn regulated by iron (72). Surprisingly, the hormone and its function in iron homeostasis were only discovered during the last decade (history reviewed in Ref. 82).

The iron-regulatory hormone hepcidin is a 2.7-kDa (25 amino acid) peptide (Figure 3) containing four disulfide bonds (132, 179, 186).

So far, I could find no quantitative studies on homeostasis failure, that is, the lowest intake amount before the homeostatic mechanism fails. In other words, what's the minimum safe daily intake.

The FDA RDA is 8 mg/day (adult males). 18 for adult females, 27 during pregnancy (I wonder if it si possible to eat all tha t iron without supplements).

Some say for vegetarians it's 14.4 (prevalence of non-heme iron); some do not agree upon that though. The 1.8 factor woudl mean almost 50 mg/day for pregnant women and that sounds huge.

The following site has good qualitative suggestions. Surprisingly enough, using a cast iron skillet provides iron fit fo rhuman absorption.

http://www.nomeatathlete.com/iron-for-vegetarians/

Since I can't find studies on safe homeostatic level for iron and in lieu of similar sources, I'm going to use as a reference the accepted EAR, Estimated Average Requirement. These are goign to be the estimated lower safe levels.

Adult males: 6 mg/d
Adult females: 5 to 8 depending on age.

I feel the above may even be conservative.

One example of a daily diet in my usual regime:

-various vegetables, 300 grams: 1.5 mg
-Pumpkin seeds, 20 grams: 1.8 mg
-Chocolate, 75% cocoa, 30 grams: 3 mg
-One slice of Whole bread: 1 mg

It is already 7.3 mg

I may add once a week one cup spinach = +6 mg
I may add once a week 1/2 cup lentils = +3 mg
I may add once a week 1 cup lchickpeas = +4 mg

By combining some sources of vitamin C together with the iron sources, I believe it is not at all likely I develop deficiencies in regular conditions, even though I eat little.
I'm pretty relieved, I can avoid supplements. or use them in just small amounts once a year as a precautionary measure avoiding blood tests.

Vegan diets are rich in iron, if the vegan person is hungry enough and eats pulses, soy being pretty high in iron. May be richer than meat eaters, actually.

pregnant females may avoid deficiencies by an accurate dietary scheme, by eating spinachs and soybeans often and together with fruit juice or other sources of vitamin C.

hi Steve,

was it easy transitioning to vegetarian for you?

i grew up with a meat eating family. my dad would take me hunting as a kid. eating meat was a normal thing growing up and was a regular practice. cooking meat with my dad was a bonding experience.

for me attempting to become vegetarian has been a struggle. sometimes i am successful. sometimes, not so much. the environment i am in caters to eating meat as well. i should be able to surpass these things but i have failed time and time again.

the horrors of meat farming should outweigh my shortcomings- i should be able to continue a vegetarian diet. but i'm not sure i've accepted it internally anymore... knowing the horrors that be.

Quote from: aya on May 26, 2016 03:32 am

Everyone around me-- my friends and family ate meat. My grandfather used to take me to the stock yards and i remember him chopping the heads of chickens off as a kid. i used to eat steak and potatoes every nite at ponderosa steak house which was across the street from a musical store where i taught instruments. i was quite young at the time. Probably a teen-ager or in my early twenties. i was reading the Self Realization Fellowship Lessons at the time and wanted to meditate more deeper. i remember Paramahansa Yogananda saying that meat makes you restless and consequently it is more difficult to meditate and that it increases the animal desires in us so that desires are much harder to overcome. i immediately decided i was going to b a vegetarian. From that day on i never touched any kind of meat again. I also remember Paramahansa talking about fish-especially bottom feeders-clams, lobsters, snails, shrimp etc. as being a detriment to spiritual unfoldment as well. It took me a couple of years to eliminate fish from my diet but i did this also. There were no vegetarians around me at the time. i just felt that it was necessary to my spiritual life. Later i reflected if i could not chop the heads off animals how could i possibly let someone else do it for me?

i now feel lighter and am not subject to as many mood swings as i had while eating meat and the dark moods that were like dark clouds following me. It looks like mccoy left a wealth of info on this thread. i will have to give it more attention. Hope this helps u Eric. i realized at a very young age that my culture, my friends and my family had very little understanding of what i was trying to do with my life. So their influence was minimal. i took pride in being different because i had a strong hunch i was way ahead of my times. Sometimes we understand that the masses are lost. We have to follow our conscious and the dictates of our intelligence and wisdom. Though we have many flaws of our own in some ways we are called to be leaders. Leaders are often new trend senders. They may be very unpopular in some ways. But history will eventually rectify the blunders of followers.

aya, like you guys say in America: NO SWEAT!!!

Even in my case my family tended to be carnivorous. Especially my father who was happy to eat almost only meat. I grew up with the input that meat is good and "makes blood".
My transition was similar to Steve's. I quit almost abruptly eating meat, whereas I kept eating fish for a while.

It is well known though, that not everyone can stand a sudden change in eating habits. In your case, I wouldn't worry about not being able to quit altogether. I would just do my best to eat in prevalence a healthy vegetarian diet, throwing in poultry or lean meat occasionally, when the body craves it in an overwhelming way. You may even throw in beef or red meat. You can counteract in part its toxins by eating a salad or vegetables together with it. Insistance is the key.

Healthwise, eating meat occasionally and with moderation and together with green vegetables probably woudl not cause problems.
From the standpoint of animal issues, you may accept the fact that an imperfect alive animals-lover is better than a perfect but sick or dead animals-lover.

Quote from: mccoy on May 26, 2016 12:15 pm

@ Steve: I've been re-reading what I wrote, which I forgot in part. Yes that's all interesting evidence that a vegetarian usually has no need to worry and to use supplements, just a little knowledge of food chemistry is needed, the amounts indicated by agencies are very often cautios, being their purpose to avoid problem in 95% or 99% of the whole population.
Also, if you eat pulses, just about everything is provided. Except B12, which is provided by even modest amounts of milk or cheese.
If you don't, there are ways around, as it turns out by the simple research I carried out.

i wonder if the body has a mechanism that makes u want to eat what u need? i seem to b gravitated to pulses on occasion. i do feel that uncontrolled desires of any kind lead to psychological and health issues. People need to separate needs from desires; that is not always an easy one. Because it seems like saints have less and less needs for anything since they r completely satisfied with what they are.

Quote from: Steve Hydonus on May 26, 2016 04:48 pm

Quote from: mccoy on May 26, 2016 12:15 pm

Amma has a tremendously busy schedule. She was asked by her devotees why she wasn't eating. Her reply was 'why? i didn't eat yesterday'. This kind of nonchalant attitude towards eating is an inspiration for fasting for those with more 'normal' desires and eating habits. i remember preparing food for monastics. What always interested me is that they were usually quite uninterested in getting fed and instead liked talking to other devotees. Usually they took quite a while to eat anything. They expressed a lack of interest when i offered them food and it was real good food! Sometimes they would thank me if i for instance i got them something to drink but generally speaking there was a lack of interest. i believe there was a lesson in it for me as i look back on this and many other things in my life.

What i have noticed about myself is that the more stimulating were the people around me or the more i have been surrounded by nature the less desire i have for food. It is as though there are other things to stimulate your diet. (LOL) U see things or smell things that give u such a wonderful feeling. If you fill your senses with to many dark foods (Especially meat) or too much sense pleasures u deny yourself more subtle spiritual pleasures and dull your spiritual sensitivity. i still remember the smell of for instance flowers at the beach when there were none around. But there are such things as astral smells. i have found that what Paramahansa Yogananda had spoke of as living off 'cosmic energy' is in part true in my own life. The more blissful i have felt the less the need or thought of food. U r digesting a higher form of food. At some point in our sadhana we take more of an interest at what is happening within us instead of stimulation from the outside world. With regard to the outside world; the senses become more developed to aroma touch and sites... so we do not need to 'gorge' our body with so many outside sources. It is just something to keep in mind as we grow spiritually.

Quote from: aya on May 27, 2016 07:10 pm

hi Steve,

You can argue I feed the demand for the meat industry but think of how much is already in motion, even if I were to stop eating meat. Numbers may be skewed but you do a quick search and will find millions if not billions of animals are killed every year for the profit.

My stopping doesn't stop what's already in motion.

If I were to successfully cut meat from my diet, the horror still exist.

There is no reason to jump on the band wagon of horror. When u go to a grocery store you think of it as food u don't think of it as that cow out in the field. U might not quit eating meat but there is no denying the horror in it. Some day almost every one will be vegetarian. It will probably be a crime to kill animals. Someone will have to start the trend for it to happen. i do not mind being a trend setter for what's rite when most people r doing what's wrong. It matters not that the whole world is practicing cruelness. It matters that we are practicing kindness and love.

Hi Dingdong. Welcome to the forum. =)

I think that depends where you come from. I've seen a dog cooked for consumption before. . .

If these images are offensive please feel free to remove them or let me know and I will remove them immediately.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ef/Dog_on_a_stick.jpg)

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/8d/32/74/8d3274824c3eb506684425470f02086c.jpg)

(https://diasp.org/camo/985207b74372a06c59bb6589ef4f7317c0014d9e/68747470733a2f2f34302e6d656469612e74756d626c722e636f6d2f34666233653931313738633537643664316638313038383932386665376635382f74756d626c725f6e746a306a673342427931747a756539676f315f3530302e6a7067)

Quote from: ding dong on May 29, 2016 04:01 am

It often takes graphic pictures to change people. Some cultures kill dogs and use them for entertainment as they breed them to fight each other. Some people believe dogs r cute so it should b unlawful to kill them; others would have a pig or a deer as a pet. I have seen people who have different animals as pets and would not think of eating them.

Often Americans belittle the people of India for worshiping cows. Yet really it is a way of justifying their own horror in killing them. Indian people have respect for the cow because it provides so much food and fulfills so many needs without killing it.

Anyone who has been at a pig roast will see the same graphic reality. There r people who have watched humans get killed for entertainment it is just a matter of sensitivity and where u draw the line. We must recognize that at one time it was very unpopular to question the entertainment of the day when most people went to coliseums and watched Christians being torn apart by lions. Today it is unpopular to question the cruelty towards animals. It is all a matter of conditioning and what a culture accepts. Our culture is also very sick. It will take history to prove it. When we our born within a certain culture we begin to consider its sickness as normal. Although being normal will some day be considered quite sick. But those with a more spiritual approach and a sensitive approach to life see beyond the cultural trappings of the day. They find it more important to speak their truth even when they recognize that for instance: the viewing at a forum like this is cut in half when such topics r discussed in detail.

Paramahansa Yogananda had pet deer in India and the United States. i am sure he never thought about venison and interestingly enough people say we r eating venison tonite and beef tonite instead of saying deer or cow. Dog meat is called fragrant meat or mutton of the earth....as if to somehow take the horror out of it. Ramana Maharshi also had animals that he held to b very spiritual. Maybe u know more about the stories surrounding him Brock.

Quote from: Steve Hydonus on May 26, 2016 04:48 pm

Sure the body has a mechanism which regulates cravings according to needs. But, as you say, greed and desire are confounding factors.
The ideal body-mind setup would not create a craving for sugary and creamy colored pastries (toxic food). That's an artificial desire created out of habit. The body would legitimately need bread and butter and honey, its need for carbs and fats has been deranged though by bad habits, so the need gets hijacked by desire.

Ramana said unequivocally that Lakshmi the cow had attained full liberation at her death. I heard one story where he looked at some people and said, "Look at Lakshmi. Do you know what state she is in? She is in samadhi." A guy on facebook even claimed that it was because Ramana was a recluse and that "even he couldn't take it" when she died and so he made that story about her enlightenment. Seems like a ridiculous interpretation to me that doesn't really tally with the facts. People make such statements very confidently, though. Who knows? Ramana said that he was visited by Siddhas in animal bodies often. Take it how you will. He also said vegetarianism was one of the best aids to spiritual practice because it produces a sattwic mind.

I personally never eat meat. When I read about Yogananda many years ago, I decided that meat eating wasn't for me. It was the easiest thing I've ever given up because I never liked the taste of meat much anyway. It is really the things on top of meat, like ketchup, that really tastes good to me. But there aren't many options for vegetarians in the small town where I am at this writing. Meat is a staple here. Still I manage. There are scant vegetarian options in fast food, although after 8 years of vegetarianism you learn all the veggie items on the menus. Family gatherings are awkward.

Quote from: ding dong on May 30, 2016 05:21 pm

Thanks for the anecdotes about Ramana and the enlightened cow Lakshmi. i know that i have heard that animals are unable to express divine consciousness because they do not have the cerebral spinal system as humans do to raise the consciousness upward. Such beings are always shaped like a star. However for various reasons i have found God can make any exceptions he wants to his laws. In the case of Lakshima i have faith that Ramana knew that their was something very extraordinary happening there. Perhaps one of the reasons was to remind us that we never can really know what we are killing so it is best not to kill at all if we can avoid it.

In this physical dimension at this time in history we are a small group of people compared to the 'herd mentality' i have seen many spiritual
aspirants return back to the herd mentality. It is very sad. But some of us will continue on. As Krishna says 'Out of a thousand there is one who seeks me. Out of a thousand who seek me there is one who finds me.' He also lived in a higher time. The numbers are probably much much smaller in these times.

Quote from: ding dong on May 30, 2016 05:21 pm

I personally never eat meat. When I read about Yogananda many years ago, I decided that meat eating wasn't for me. It was the easiest thing I've ever given up because I never liked the taste of meat much anyway. It is really the things on top of meat, like ketchup, that really tastes good to me. But there aren't many options for vegetarians in the small town where I am at this writing. Meat is a staple here. Still I manage. There are scant vegetarian options in fast food, although after 8 years of vegetarianism you learn all the veggie items on the menus. Family gatherings are awkward.

That reminds my home when a young boy!! Actually it was my father whose staple was meat. I was relieved when I stopped eating that. After innumerable tough pieces of meat requiring interminable chewing, eating cheese was a heaven

Quote from: mccoy on May 31, 2016 10:19 pm

Quote from: ding dong on May 30, 2016 05:21 pm

It interests me. Have we come to this period to help or are we here because of our own bad karma? Or is it perhaps a little bit of both? All i know is that i have spend a lot of energy defending my vegetarianism over the years and i can think of a lot better ways of using my time. In the future some of these ideas we have given on this thread will b passe. Why? Because the general population will be vegetarian and meditation will be part of life for most people as the ages progress. We must at some point recognize that we are tested in a spiritual sense to see if we are above the cultural norms of the day. We must carve our own destiny independent of the sickness we see around us. i pray for friends here on the forum who have kept their integrity and have not let the meat industry and the sickness of normalcy effect their life style and eating habits.

Spiritual Portal

Food, Health & Fitness => Lettuce 🥬 eat at Baba's Habash Cafe => Topic started by: Jitendra Hydonus on May 06, 2015 05:51 am