Spiritual Portal

Is religion important or to spiritual development? Recently i have been on another site and it seemed like all they talked about was The Self Realization Fellowship. i do think that the helpful advice and views of an organization can help our spiritual development. Especially if we are geographically near such places. i spent several years at a Vivekananda Monastery with Amma's devotees and with Ammas well as many years at SRF. i found them all helpful. Yet i also found that in the end it is my personal relationship with a guru and my spiritual practice that leads me to the answers i need. Also the friends and meditation experiences and life encounters i have had that have changed me the most.

Jitendra

Steve, a religion is important insofar as it is able to effectively channel and organize the spiritual energy of its devotees.
If the organization is able to promote specific teachings and if people get benefit from it then it is important.
Of course, the importance of a religious organization governs at the beginning of the spiritual practice, whereas later on individual practice governs, as you say.

Mccoy; Either intentionally or unintentionally you and I left out such topics as social, political and any larger issues beyond personal help that religion can offer. I have found that most religions have much more difficulty in these areas and find themselves a center of 'controversy'  if they try answering such concerns.

Hi Jitendra,
What perfect timing... I've been doing a little research lately on different paths and am beginning to question particular aspects of religion as well.
I've briefly read up on what it means to be a satanist and have had a curiosity in understanding the origins of demons. During my studies I've read experiences of devotees/followers of the satanist path sharing why it is they've embraced satanism. A few say they follow the path after having felt the presence of Satan and to my surprise, their experience is similar to other stories described by those who have encountered the presence of Jesus Christ.

"unexpectedly and suddenly I felt a powerful and overwhelming presence. I was so shocked and surprised by that usual experience (never had anything even remotely similar) and all I could do was ask in mind who was that and… I received clear, strong and even more shocking answer: SATAN! Uninvited and confusing joy and energy flooded through me. It was so incredible, so intense, I felt complete union with Satan. I can’t describe that in words, it was too amazing. As if I became god, all powerful, everything at once, felt power of creation and destruction, full of energy and much, much, much more! It was complete ecstasy! You can’t be the same after that experience. I just felt in love with Satan in an instant and there was no turning back, my heart was singing, only my mind was stuttered and confused about what to do with all that."

This is one example... And another example...

"I have a long history of drug addiction and have been depressed and suicidal for going on 10 years. That all disappeared when I dedicated myself to Satan, almost overnight! I don’t want to die anymore, I don’t crave drugs or alcohol. I can feel Satan with me always. I’m positive, at peace and even though there are still money problems, I’m actually happy, despite that.

My love and gratitude to Satan for pulling me out of the shit hole I was in goes beyond words."

Words like Love and Gratitude are emphasized and most stories seem to describe an overwhelming force of peace and joy. Below is a quick description of a lady whom says she experienced Jesus Christ
"So I knelt down by the bed, crying all the time. And then it happened. I felt this overwhelming peace and warmth. I knew it was the Lord Jesus, he was there with me. "

Most people describe this force as an instinctive knowing. I've had my own experience in the past where a surreal and undeniable force had me kneeling and "kissing the masters feet" so to say. There was a stone and a dove in my backyard and I felt I was in the presence of a Master.

Where are all these feelings coming from ? Maybe it is as Mccoy has stated... That Religion is a way to direct spiritual energy. Maybe, we are all learning through religion how to tune into a divine frequency.

And... what is the doctrine and practices of what you call Satan?  From my understanding of Satan his tactics are to take us away from our unity with spirit and to emesh us in this material world.

Hi Jitendra, I've only recently started digging into the religion of satanism so I don't have a firm answer for you. My previous post was to pose an idea that reflects Mccoys sentiments. That Religion is a construct to deeper expression so to answer the question in your first post I believe it CAN be important. It is for some and isn't for others.
Whatever path you follow, there are basic principals throughout that help the individual live a rich and meaningful life.
I like the idea of Sufism for its defined as The Religion of the Heart.

"Sufism is the religion of the heart, the religion in which the most important thing is to seek God in the heart of mankind."
"The first way is to recognize God the divine in every person, and to care for every person with whom we come in contact, in our thought, speech, and action."
"The next way of practicing this religion is to think of the feeling of the person who is not at the moment before us. "
"The third way of realizing the Sufi principle is to recognize in one's own feeling the feeling of God, and to realize every impulse that rises in one's heart as a direction from God."

Although I'm not sure I necessarily understand or agree with everything being shared above- I do share certain values found in sufism. It's also interesting to note that there are people who claim a particular path without understanding the depth of the religion they've decided to follow. It's because of this you'll find many branches within the same religion that more and more conform to someones own idea of what it means to live a deeper life. A life that reflects their inner sanctum.

The individuals quoted in my previous post come from two seemingly different paths... Christianity and Satanism yet the words and emotions in which they share are so closely related that you can't help but wonder, what are these people tapping into? I think there's something here to take note of... That God has many names and religion is another tool created by man as an aid to understanding things we classify as spiritual.


There's a lot to discuss when it comes to religion as we're most aware. My thinking is more a long the lines.... I am me. That's my path.

cosmicgoat, I would not trust the satanists' words.
Satanist cult are known for their black magic practices where they conjure up evil forces. Those who were devotees of satanist sects have committed crimes of brutal cruelty. Sometimes getting into satanic rituals is enough to cause demonic possessions.
While traditional religions preach the positiv equalities of the soul, Satan preaches hate, doom, greed, ruin.

So, any spiritual experience from feeling the presnece of Satan cannot but be a deception.

Ya all know me and I tell ya there aint nothin like that down home religion. Get back to the hell fire and brimstone. Lets a get this hot bed a flamin with the holy spirit. i mean to tell ya folks  ya aint seen notin till ya all see Beady back at those ol Christian revivals. The world is a smolderin' but ol Beady can take you into those pure waters of the holy spirit. You been rattlin yo trap and yo just a lambskin away from the ol devil himself. I tell ya Mccoy were goina put down that ol demon from hell. Take me where those cool waters flow and I'll be a searchin my soul!

                                                                                           Beatrice Landcaster

Hi Mccoy.
I strongly disagree. Through my studies I've found that most Satanist do not preach or practice hate and doom. Instead they share a common philosophy that caters to individualism and expression. How many radicals do you know that have acted out violence in the name of God ? The people that commit these types of acts and crimes don't belong to just one religious sect.
I also disagree that demons are something to be afraid of. That's the same as stating all humans are evil . Or that one race of people are all bad people, none of them can be good if they are that race. Where does the word demon originate from ? You'll find it wasn't used as a word to define a malevolent force but was once a word used to describe something akin to a spirit of nature.
It wasn't my intention to focus so much on any particular Religion but to make a point by answering the question posed by Jitendra. A point that mirrors your belief as well.... That religion is a way to channel energy.

cosmicG, I didn't know that etimological meaning of 'demons'.
If by demons you mean any disincaranted spirit, not necessarily bad, it's all right, I follow your reasoning.

Whatever is satanic, though, by definitions follows the nature of satan or maya, the cosmic deceiver. That is: does not speak the truth.

Ah but Mccoy you've forgotten I've long sense transmogrified to goat form ! The ways of human mythology, in all of its order and chaos are foreign to me ! Indeed I am other worldly and find it difficult enough to adapt to the ritual of these terrestrial nanny goats ! There is little room in this tiny head of mine for understanding both earth goats and you earthly humans !  :o

I appreciate your quotIng some of the sufi tenets. The Hindu religion also contains the force of attraction and repulsion (God and Satan)  all in one. However there is an important difference here. Whereas the force of good and evil is all contained in God in Hindusim since God created everything... in Christianity those forces are in eternal opposition. In Hindusim those forces can be transcended by first following kindness  to others and love for God and through meditation and spiritual practice eventually rising above both our ideas of  (Satan) and (God) and seeing that it is all a cosmic illusion. Just a play of forces which creates this cosmic movie show.

Buddhism is a rather radical departure from God and Satan in the sense that the the acceptance of both these ideas are also only ideas and principles and that there is no need to accept either of these concepts but instead reach enlightenement and drop all our preconcieved ideas of religion, God, Satan etc.

In our path to rise above both evil and good we are taught to follow the path of good and kindness until we rise  above the 'idea' of good and evil. This is done through meditation and spiritual practice and service.

Steve

I believe it it must be time to bring the mid nite astrologer in for a mid nite horrorscope reading on the cosmic goat.
I think it's horns have grown out of proportion. They appear horrorific!

https://www.google.com/search?q=george+w+bush+alfred+e+neuman&tbm=isch&tbs=simg:CAQSywEayAELEKjU2AQaBggLCBcIPQwLELCMpwganAEKOggCEhTIHPoesR2dCu0e3BGSIJYRgyC7HRogK7L0xv1vFZJ9rder73DpPW4tZeRKegpQcWIBVFFeJYoKXggDEiicHaEdphG2GvoRxQ-bHfgPuRyoEZEuwTqPLo0u4i_1SOqAuki6ZJY8wGjC4c46bBmcOjWWR5PsWhLytapo9puM2RdmM1bNQ7uFspNbfL18_1-c94F40bo6mMQxUMCxCOrv4IGgoKCAgBEgRl17OTDA&sa=X&ei=pQu_VIL4EdWyyASA9oGIDw&ved=0CBgQwg4oAA&biw=360&bih=559#imgrc=kCLvCdJVbBnAZM%253A%3BrF9xC6e074SUZM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fphotos1.blogger.com%252Fblogger%252F764%252F231%252F1600%252FAlfredEW.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fgoodproblem.blogspot.com%252F2005_09_01_archive.html%3B653%3B758

Cosmic Gut was grazing in a high rarefied atmosphere of a mountain top and ate some of  that special grass. He got light
headed and now we are seeing the results. We are waiting for more of his visions. While back on earth; Today if you ask a car dealer to let you see something for 10 grand, he'll show you the door!



                                              Alfie

Thanks for clearing up this post on the phone and making adjustments here. i see you are giving examples of other people, and not yourself and trying to show the similarities of some experiences of both Satanists and Christians. Interesting! Is it possible this is true because they both lie within the dualities of good and evil? Whereas some other religions-most notably Hinduism and Buddhism-include both good and evil, darkness and light, maya and truth within the framework of their religion. Seeing God himself as the creator of evil and good.

Jitendra

King James Bible

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things~Isaiah 45:7

It is fascinating how one dimensional people can be. As if there is one way to do things. We are talking to many people who are much like many Catholics. They have one religion and they follow almost everything the church says. Despite the fact that the church has been proven wrong many times in history. i have been in SRF all my life but i think God that Guru has shown me that SRF is not infallible and has taught me how to communicate out of the confines of one religion or one forum. It is much like being in a house and never leaving the front door. SRF has surely helped me but to follow everything they might or might not be saying.... well folks... you just have not been around the organization to know that they disagree among themselves and many of them have left because of it. But this does not stop us from being grateful for all that there is to offer and how we have been helped by our many spiritual influences.

 

Steve Hydonus

The Bible (and religion) shows the way to go to heaven, not the way the heavens go.
Galileo Galilei

 
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
Galileo Galilei
 
It is surely harmful to souls to make it a heresy to believe what is proved.
Galileo Galilei

 
It vexes me when they would constrain science by the authority of the Scriptures, and yet do not consider themselves bound to answer reason and experiment.
Galileo Galilei
 
We cannot teach people anything; we can only help them discover it within themselves.
Galileo Galilei

 

 

 


   

 



 

Well Alfie i would say we r quite fortunate to have our friend cosmic goat with us. Even though he grazes in unusual pastures. He does have quite a sense of humor and seems quite at home with our humorous jabs. He has been around thru thick and thin. How many friends can we count on like that?

MISGUIDED LOYALTIES

NOVEMBER 24, 2013

A A A

Anyone familiar with the life and writings of Simone Weil will, I am sure, agree that she was a woman of exceptional faith. She was also a woman with an unwavering commitment to the poor. But, and this may seem anomalous, she was also exceptional and unwavering in a certain resistance she had towards the institutional church. During her lifetime she longed for daily Eucharist, even as she resisted baptism and membership in the church. Why?

It wasn’t the church’s faults and failings that bothered her. She was a realist and accepted that every family and institution has its infidelities, flaws, and sin. She had little problem forgiving the church for its shortcomings. Her resistance to full genuflection within the institutional church had its root instead in a particular anxiety she felt before any social institution, that is, she saw how an uncritical patriotism or misguided loyalty often leaves individual members of an institution unable to see the sins and shortcomings within that institution. For instance, fiercely patriotic citizens can be blind to the injustices done by their own countries and deeply pious people can be constrained by their loyalty to the church so as to turn a blind eye on the church’s faults, as was the case with many saints who supported the Crusades and the Inquisition. Blind loyalty to country, church, family, or anything else, Weil believed, becomes a form of idolatry.

She’s right. Blind loyalty can easily become idolatry, despite its sincerity and high motives. It might seem wrong to criticize loyalty, but we can be too loyal, loyal to the point where our loyalty blinds us from seeing the real harm sometimes being done by those to whom we are uncritically giving that loyalty.

We are all familiar with certain axioms which each in their own way, would have loyalty trumping everything else: My country, right or wrong! The church, love it or leave it! A family’s dirty secrets need to remain inside the family; they’re nobody else’s business! But these axioms, with their naïve and uncritical call for loyalty to one’s own, are neither wise nor Christian.  Both human wisdom and Christian discipleship call us to something deeper.

All families, all countries, and all churches have their sins and shortcomings, but we show our love and loyalty when, instead of blinding our eyes to those faults, we instead challenge ourselves and everyone within that circle to look at and correct those sins and shortcomings. We can learn lessons here from Recovery and 12-Step programs. What they have learned through years of experience in dealing with dysfunction of every kind is that the loving thing to do in the face of sickness, inside of any group or relationship, is to confront that pathology. To not confront it is to enable it. Real love and real loyalty do not remain uncritical. They never say: This is my family, my country, or my church – right or wrong! Instead, when things are wrong, they tell us to show love and loyalty not by protecting our own, but by confronting what’s wrong.

That’s in fact the biblical tradition of the prophets, exactly what the prophets did. They loved their people and were fiercely loyal to their own religious tradition, but they were not so blindly loyal so as to be uncritical of the real faults inside that religious community. They were never constrained by false loyalty so as to be blind to the sins within their own religious structures and remain muted in the face of those faults. They never said of their religious tradition: Love or leave it!  Instead, they said: We need to change this – and we need to change it in the name of loyalty and love.

Jesus followed in the same path. He was faithful and loyal to Judaism, but he was not silent in the face of its faults and wrongdoings in his time. In the name of love, he challenged everything that was wrong. He taught, and taught strongly, that blind religious loyalty can be idolatry. He would be last person to teach that loyalty and love mean never criticizing your own. Indeed, he de-literalizes the meaning of family, country, and church and asks us to understand these in a higher way. He asks: Who is my mother and who are my brothers and sisters? And he goes on to say that these are not to be defined by biology, country, or religious denomination. Real family, he says, is made up by something else, namely, by those who hear the word of God and keep it, irrespective of biology, country, or religion. Consequently biology, country, and religion must be criticized and opposed whenever they stand in the way of this deeper union in faith and justice.

Blood may be thicker than water. But, for Jesus, faith and justice are thicker than blood, country, and church. Moreover, for him, genuine love and loyalty manifest themselves in a commitment to challenge things that are wrong, even when that means seeming to be disloyal to one’s own.


Ron Rolheiser

Intellectual study ... without a corresponding realization produces vanity and a false conviction that one knows (underlined by the Guru himself.) and is detrimental to realization...You must feel, you must realize truth before you can know it is true.... What seems true to reason and sense perception is not always true in fact. The only sure way to know truth is to realize it intuitively....You must realize the truth yourself.~Paramahansa Yogananda

Philosophy works for some, for me it has its place.That place is a part of the activities of the mind and thought processes. Spirituality is beyond the mind and those experiences that we have in meditation are transcendental. They do not occur when the mental processes r churning. So u have philosophy and religion basically on the same level. They r both products of the mind. Spirituality is beyond mind. It is the experience of peace, bliss, joy and love and there r corresponding biological manifestations in evidence. You cannot explain such things to those who have never experienced. People think God is dead but they have never tried to still the mind. Until that has been experienced at some level it is a useless conversation if someone has no faith in what is beyond mind. Unlike philosophy the adage-- i think therefore i am-- is replaced with-- i think therefore i am restless and i experience therefore i am not.... at the very least i am not what i thought because 'I' has gone.