Food affects and mirrors behavior

[Jitendra Hydonus]

In fact I have had vegetarian pets and they have been so peaceful and kind that unfortunately people steal them from me. I had a beautiful vegetarian cat and let it play in the hallway of an Apartment Building I lived in at Redondo Beach California. A neighbor took Surrender Kitty and locked it up in her apartment for 6 months. She contaminated the pet with a death ☠️ product diet; Then let it out in the hallway 6 months later as a ravenous meat eater. I said to her; “there’s my cat!” And she said I could have it since she was moving to New York. Recognizing her insidious plan, I declined. She obviously brainwashed  little Serenity Surrender Kitty. I would have to spend months deprograming her.

[mccoy]

In regards to eating meat, what is your opinion on the spiritual aspect of hunting and fishing? These are a large part of spirituality and connection for many indigenous peoples. The aboriginal peoples of Australia for example who may have been in that region for over 70,000 years with a persistent culture.

I think that human beings have evolved and fishing and hunting cultures have become obsolete and unnecessary, except in places and times where survival depends on hunting and fishing.

Presently, hunting and fishing are usually recreational activities, mostly devoid of any spirituality whatsoever.

[patrick]

In regards to eating meat, what is your opinion on the spiritual aspect of hunting and fishing? These are a large part of spirituality and connection for many indigenous peoples. The aboriginal peoples of Australia for example who may have been in that region for over 70,000 years with a persistent culture.

We do not know with certainty that during those 70,000 years you speak of, the continent was even there that long. Many deluges and changes of climate and topography have changed the earths surface during that time. Had it not been so there would never have been the well known facts surrounding all kinds of stretches of lands, for an example,  found under the oceans floor that show signs of intelligent life who built them. There would also not have been, for instance, changes in the polarity of the earths poles. There would have not been sudden seismological activity on the earth that has changed the whole topography of the earths surface, Not to even speak of the activities of the inhabitants,  that at times wiped out most of the population of the earth. So what ‘may’ have been is only conjecture.

We must recognize, at some point, that everything has a spiritual aspect. Even a tree has trapped spiritual energy. And who has not seen a spiritual dog that has the ability to even save life? Do we for instance judge a man eating meat as lowly, who has defended his country from intruders invading who would enslave them?  Would the dogs or the man’s protection to our freedom from oppression be considered not spiritual? People and dogs cannot be judged or evaluated by their eating meat, as to whether they have or have not any ability to make spiritual decisions. My  conclusion, following your line of reasoning: We do not know that people have always done anything they may be doing today. Nor what a persons choice of action will be, by what they eat alone. Spirituality has many defining qualities, what people eat and drink is only one of those distinctive expressions, which nevertheless,  obviously affects behavior. Fortunately we have people aware enough to see this and have advised us in the best way to spiritualize consciousness. If people choose to ignore such council it is their psychological, health and spiritual loss.

We don't know anything historical with certainty, but isotope-dating of artifacts as well as calculations from population genetics are what are giving the ~70,000 year mark. My point is more that these cultures are much more in tune with the natural environment than the west or than modern India, and they have a spiritual history that is at the very least many thousands of years old. These are cultures that see themselves as brother or sister to animals and that actively speak to animals thanking them. I am hesitant to regard these peoples cultures as not as 'evolved' or 'advanced' as modern western cultures and developed eastern cultures. They do not look at the aspect of hunting or fishing as a 'necessary evil'. They see the actual act as a type of sacrament or even as a religious ceremony. Vegetarianism is relatively new in world cultures, and has only been possible since the invention of farming. Paintings in caves and stone carvings show hunting long before farms, seed planting and cultivation. The principle of Ahimsa is the basis of most of these ideas in India as a notion of non-violence, but this seems to be a parallel idea to spiritual hunting and not a confrontation of it. It is possible that the disconnect from hunting/fishing as spiritual endeavors, has removed a portion of human need/drive. And, when drives go unfulfilled/unexpressed they can erupt in unforeseen ways. Hitler as an example, used to warn people at meals about the abuse that animals suffer and would try to persuade them to eat a vegetarian diet such as he did. A case like this I think shows the general non-link between vegetarian/omnivore and spirituality. 

[Jitendra Hydonus]

Patrict you have given the isolated narrative of a madman above: hardly an example for any vegetarian. It would be very sick to look into the inner mental activities of an Adolph Hitler. Why not instead look at the writings and life lived of a holy man, who not only lived the life but changed his country to a democracy from the colonialism of England.

Gandhi’s commitment to not eating animal meat and being a vegetarian came from his own belief that it was immoral to eat meat or animals. He was aware that eating meat brought harm and suffering to animals, which he ethically and morally opposed, and it became his mission to promote and spread this awareness and a vegetarian diet. He said,
Mahatma Gandhi, Our Moral Progress is Judged By Our Treatment of Animals
www.humanedecisions.com/mahatma-gandhi-our-moral-progress-is-judged-by-our-treatment-of-animals/
www.humanedecisions.com/mahatma-gandhi-our-moral-progres…

[patrick]

Patrict you have given the isolated narrative of a madman above: hardly an example for any vegetarian. It would be very sick to look into the inner mental activities of an Adolph Hitler. Why not instead look at the writings and life lived of a holy man, who not only lived the life but changed his country to a democracy from the colonialism of England.

Gandhi’s commitment to not eating animal meat and being a vegetarian came from his own belief that it was immoral to eat meat or animals. He was aware that eating meat brought harm and suffering to animals, which he ethically and morally opposed, and it became his mission to promote and spread this awareness and a vegetarian diet. He said,
Mahatma Gandhi, Our Moral Progress is Judged By Our Treatment of Animals
www.humanedecisions.com/mahatma-gandhi-our-moral-progress-is-judged-by-our-treatment-of-animals/
www.humanedecisions.com/mahatma-gandhi-our-moral-progres…

I think that you may have looked past my point, which was to say that overall morality is not well connected with an omnivorous or a vegetarian behavior, however as a quirk of history you may be surprised to know that Ghandi and Hitler wrote correspondence to one another, often addressing eachother as friend and discussing their different approaches to their conflict with the British and both espoused similar views towards the treatment of Animals, of which they also talked.

[patrick]

If you would like to borrow this book : Mohandas K. Gandhi, Autobiography: The Story of My Experiments with Truth ; I would be glad to lend it. In it Ghandi discusses how his views surrounding meat were complicated and what conclusions he made at different times in his life.

[Jitendra Hydonus]

If you would like to borrow this book : Mohandas K. Gandhi, Autobiography: The Story of My Experiments with Truth ; I would be glad to lend it. In it Ghandi discusses how his views surrounding meat were complicated and what conclusions he made at different times in his life.

It means nothing that Gandhi talked with Hitler. As you know Franklin Roosevelt talked with Joseph Stalin. And Paramahansa Yogananda talked with Adolph Hitler and tried to warn him about his malicious plans.

If you would like to borrow the book : The Holy Science it will help you understand how a human body is not even suited to the ingestion of meat. In it he (Sri Yukteswar) explains that the science of the human anatomy is suited for a vegetarian diet. And his view is very simple and not complicated. Unlike your views of a ‘quirk of history’ both Paramahansa Yogananda and Sri Yukteswar were not constrained by the false notions of history you have been brain washed into thinking by the false notions of the civilization and progress of man; Which we were taught in school from the acceptance of a Charles Darwin perspective.

Patrict you have given the isolated narrative of a madman above: hardly an example for any vegetarian. It would be very sick to look into the inner mental activities of an Adolph Hitler. Why not instead look at the writings and life lived of a holy man, who not only lived the life but changed his country to a democracy from the colonialism of England.

Gandhi’s commitment to not eating animal meat and being a vegetarian came from his own belief that it was immoral to eat meat or animals. He was aware that eating meat brought harm and suffering to animals, which he ethically and morally opposed, and it became his mission to promote and spread this awareness and a vegetarian diet. He said,
Mahatma Gandhi, Our Moral Progress is Judged By Our Treatment of Animals
www.humanedecisions.com/mahatma-gandhi-our-moral-progress-is-judged-by-our-treatment-of-animals/
www.humanedecisions.com/mahatma-gandhi-our-moral-progres…

I think that you may have looked past my point, which was to say that overall morality is not well connected with an omnivorous or a vegetarian behavior, however as a quirk of history you may be surprised to know that Ghandi and Hitler wrote correspondence to one another, often addressing eachother as friend and discussing their different approaches to their conflict with the British and both espoused similar views towards the treatment of Animals, of which they also talked.

[mccoy]

If you would like to borrow this book : Mohandas K. Gandhi, Autobiography: The Story of My Experiments with Truth ; I would be glad to lend it. In it Ghandi discusses how his views surrounding meat were complicated and what conclusions he made at different times in his life.

I read that book, a very good one, but Gandhi was a proponent of a vegan raw diet. He himself almost died because of his strict diet and had to fall back on goat's milk. I don't remember he ever hinted at eating meat

[guest587]

The best book is the manuscript of nature, whose laws and mysteries will be interpreted by each individual according to his or her needs. The author is rather ingenious.

[patrick]

The best book is the manuscript of nature, whose laws and mysteries will be interpreted by each individual according to his or her needs. The author is rather ingenious.

Underrated comment

[patrick]

If you would like to borrow this book : Mohandas K. Gandhi, Autobiography: The Story of My Experiments with Truth ; I would be glad to lend it. In it Ghandi discusses how his views surrounding meat were complicated and what conclusions he made at different times in his life.

I read that book, a very good one, but Gandhi was a proponent of a vegan raw diet. He himself almost died because of his strict diet and had to fall back on goat's milk. I don't remember he ever hinted at eating meat

He mentioned that he ate meat when he was a teenager, he did not do it for enjoyment but instead had at the time an idea that this is what would make him and others strong enough to overthrow the British. Of course there are many examples of very strong people who are vegetarians, but at the time this was a concept that his friends had come across. The rest of his life he totally abstained from any meat, and he mentioned that he felt very repentant for what he had don.

[patrick]

If you would like to borrow this book : Mohandas K. Gandhi, Autobiography: The Story of My Experiments with Truth ; I would be glad to lend it. In it Ghandi discusses how his views surrounding meat were complicated and what conclusions he made at different times in his life.

It means nothing that Gandhi talked with Hitler. As you know Franklin Roosevelt talked with Joseph Stalin. And Paramahansa Yogananda talked with Adolph Hitler and tried to warn him about his malicious plans.

If you would like to borrow the book : The Holy Science it will help you understand how a human body is not even suited to the ingestion of meat. In it he (Sri Yukteswar) explains that the science of the human anatomy is suited for a vegetarian diet. And his view is very simple and not complicated. Unlike your views of a ‘quirk of history’ both Paramahansa Yogananda and Sri Yukteswar were not constrained by the false notions of history you have been brain washed into thinking by the false notions of the civilization and progress of man; Which we were taught in school from the acceptance of a Charles Darwin perspective.

Patrict you have given the isolated narrative of a madman above: hardly an example for any vegetarian. It would be very sick to look into the inner mental activities of an Adolph Hitler. Why not instead look at the writings and life lived of a holy man, who not only lived the life but changed his country to a democracy from the colonialism of England.

Gandhi’s commitment to not eating animal meat and being a vegetarian came from his own belief that it was immoral to eat meat or animals. He was aware that eating meat brought harm and suffering to animals, which he ethically and morally opposed, and it became his mission to promote and spread this awareness and a vegetarian diet. He said,
Mahatma Gandhi, Our Moral Progress is Judged By Our Treatment of Animals
www.humanedecisions.com/mahatma-gandhi-our-moral-progress-is-judged-by-our-treatment-of-animals/
www.humanedecisions.com/mahatma-gandhi-our-moral-progres…

I think that you may have looked past my point, which was to say that overall morality is not well connected with an omnivorous or a vegetarian behavior, however as a quirk of history you may be surprised to know that Ghandi and Hitler wrote correspondence to one another, often addressing eachother as friend and discussing their different approaches to their conflict with the British and both espoused similar views towards the treatment of Animals, of which they also talked.

  Is it possible that you are referring to a different book? The holy sciences is more based on comparison of religions and is only about 90 pages or so, I don't remember it having a chapter on diet, it did have a small passage about how humans are offput by the sight of blood.
     Regarding being 'brainwashed' etc, please try to keep ad hominem type comments to a minimum.

[Jitendra Hydonus]

Patrict I believe you are referring to another book since the Holy Science by Sri Yukteswar has a very important section on diet and why a vegetarian diet is best suited for human beings.  And it is quite lengthy and descriptive, from an anatomical view, sensory view and comparison of meat eating habits of various creatures compared to vegetarian eating creatures.  You are welcome to have the opinion you wish friend. But I sincerely think you have been brainwashed by our culture to believe things that are based on a social perspective of the dark ages. Its not one person against another. It is an honest statement from my view. We have had such conversations before and you wanted me to have out with it. However when I do express the honesty you seek, you act as though I have attacked you. I see it as a defense posture you take. I am not forcing my opinion on you. I am stating facts that are accepted by the Masters and not by western society and culture….which is antiquated and no longer serves any useful purpose in ecological, spiritual, economic and climate concerns.

I also want to acknowledge that you are a welcome presence here and it is a good place to express your views… regardless of how they may differ from myself or the Masters most of us have taken an interest in here.

[patrick]

Patrict I believe you are referring to another book since the Holy Science by Sri Yukteswar has a very important section on diet and why a vegetarian diet is best suited for human beings.  And it is quite lengthy and descriptive, from an anatomical view, sensory view and comparison of meat eating habits of various creatures compared to vegetarian eating creatures.  You are welcome to have the opinion you wish friend. But I sincerely think you have been brainwashed by our culture to believe things that are based on a social perspective of the dark ages. Its not one person against another. It is an honest statement from my view. We have had such conversations before and you wanted me to have out with it. However when I do express the honesty you seek, you act as though I have attacked you. I see it as a defense posture you take. I am not forcing my opinion on you. I am stating facts that are accepted by the Masters and not by western society and culture.

I have only read the original 1894 edition, it has 4 chapters 70 pages; The gospel, the Goal, The Procedure, The Revelation. But I see that there is a reprint that someone did for self-realization fellowship in the 1970's where some American Authors added some pages and re-copywrited the title and started charging money for the book. (It was previously free to all) maybe this new version is what you are speaking of. If you have the copy that is all in English and says self realization fellowship on the bottom, then that may be where you are seeing this other information. The original version is in Hindi with the translation on the opposing page for the dual version.
      You are of course free to hold views that others are 'brainwashed' but you may find it helpful to not confuse what you 'think' someone holds as belief with what they actually hold. When you say you are stating facts, it is important to remember that facts and logic are not always compatible with other forms of knowledge. Intuition and understanding are often deeper than 'fact'. I would suggest learning some meditative techniques that will allow you to free yourself from this paradigm. What are some of the techniques that you think could benefit you in working on that aspect?
        Guru Nanak the first guru of Sikhism had a good quote about the meat issue: "Only fools argue whether to eat meat or not. They don't understand truth nor do they meditate on it. Who can define what is meat and what is plant? Who knows where the sin lies, being a vegetarian or a non- vegetarian?"
My point of interest is not in weather or not meat eating is good or bad or some other human level judgement, I am interested in the spirituality associated with ancient people and their hunting/fishing rituals and where these are in the constellation of spiritual practices.
   
     

[Jitendra Hydonus]

The pages, if added, were the writings of Sri Yukteswar. The Self Relationship Fellowship would not add words to a book written by Sri Yukteswar from any authors but him. I will ask Self Realization Fellowship about any changes in the book. Thanks for your perceptions. I do not go by beliefs but rather the living habits of people and their actions in regards to others, including animals. In this context it becomes obvious what factors influence behaviors.

I can only go by the views you’ve stated here Patrict. That are stated in your entries above. If you choose to argue about eating meat have I called you a fool or even insinuating that you are? No I have not.

Guru Nanak dev ji and all Gurus were pure Vegetarian and in fact after the forging of Khalsa panth, Guru Gobind Singh ji strictly restricted nonveg for Singhs, but still because of people's will some Sikhs do eat meat.

In essence everything is spiritual, even though it’s actions can be considered against dharma. Spirit created both good and evil. You may have your interest in what others considered spiritual. I’m interested in enlightenment and the best way to attain to it and I am fortunate to have those techniques already.  🙏